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Battle Tactics And Tips


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#1 Hobbes

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Posted 07 September 2004 - 01:39 PM

OK, I've come up with the idea of this thread after noticing the differences between XCom and UFO2000 and how it might be useful to start listing some of the tricks available (but not all, of course)

Grenades
- Unlike XCom, primed grenades with 0 will explode the moment they touch the ground, either thrown or dropped. The only exception is the smoke grenade, which will explode at the end of the turn.
- The timer countdown only stops when a grenade is in the soldiers hand. As a result, a grenade with a 0 setting will explode if it's placed on the belt, legs or any other part of the body.
- Both these two aspects can be combined: you can have a soldier with two 0 timer grenades on both hands, ready to throw them on the next turn. Or you can set a grenade with a 4 setting, put it on the belt and have it ready to be used after two of your turns. But remember that the timer is still ticking, otherwise it will go off.
- When throwing grenades, pay attention to the upper levels, otherwise they might bounce off the roof and explode right next to you.

Smoke
- Smoke can be either your friend or your enemy. A curtain of smoke can obscure your soldiers movement from your opponent but it can make it also very hard to find the opposing team.
- Smoke can be generated with smoke grenades, or, more efficiently, with explosives (larger amount of smoke produced). Explosives (and explosive ammo) also have the advantage of clearing up the terrain (and the disadvantage of removing features that can be used for cover when advancing).
- Smoke only lasts two turns after it has been produced: yours and your opponent's. If you are taking advantage of a smoke curtain produced by your opponent remember that it will dissappear by the time of his next turn, removing your cover.
- When smoke grenades are dropped on the floor, when you hit end turn and it counts as if your opponent has detonated them. (this might be a bug)

That's it for now. I will post more later.

#2 Hailfire22

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Posted 08 September 2004 - 10:37 AM

Nice post. Unfortunately I was on the recieving end of those tactics a few days ago.
:master:

Edited by Hailfire22, 08 September 2004 - 10:38 AM.


#3 HaJo

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Posted 08 September 2004 - 12:12 PM

differences between XCom and UFO2000 .. Smoke


I found smoke too unreliable in XCom, so I seldom used it back then.
Someone mentioned that the program had a limit of squares on the map
that could be burning/smoking at any one time, so a smokegrenade
might not generate any smoke - e.g. after using several incend. ammo
for illumination at night.

In Ufo2000 this is no longer a problem, so tactics are changing :-)

#4 Hailfire22

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Posted 08 September 2004 - 06:02 PM

In Ufo2000 this is no longer a problem,  so tactics are changing :-)


Not to mention that the computer could just remember the position of your troops like they did at night. People can do that but are less likely because they usually don't just sit there.

Edited by Hailfire22, 08 September 2004 - 06:07 PM.


#5 Hobbes

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Posted 10 September 2004 - 05:31 PM

This gives me an idea for another topic.

Assessing the tactical situation:
- A soldier vision a maximum foward visibility of 17 squares. The side visibility is determined by a 90 degree arc (45 degrees to each size) whose edges reach up to 12 squares. The existence of obstacules/smoke can severely restrict these values.
- Although enemy units and their movement only appear visible if they are within eyesight of your units, if the area that they are travelling is visible (i.e. has been revealed) their actions can be visible while on WATCH mode (while your opponent is playing). This includes the opening/closing of doors, gunfire, destruction of terrain and throwing/dropping/picking objects on the ground.
- Therefore, a lot of information (approximate location of the enemy's units, how much TUs remain, etc.) can be understood while on WATCH mode even if you don't actually see the enemy's units. The trick is to be looking at the right place while your opponent move them.
- But, by the same token this means that an observing opponent can figure out what you are doing and how your troops are deployed and act upon that information.
- All of this can be used for maskirova, or deception, especially on the opening turns where the players are exploring the map. It only requires some imagination (and of course that your opponent don't realize that you are fooling him).

#6 Hailfire22

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Posted 10 September 2004 - 08:13 PM

I'd also like to put in my own thoughts on the subject of tactic changes.

In my experience so far with UFO one of the most dramatic changes from X-COM is the changes to weaponry. Yes, most of the weapons have not been changed but the one major change in the game has led me to believe that the way we use these weapons have also.

1) Hvy. Plasma is not so uber.
With the lack of auto fire now for balance you can't just stick Hvy's on every guy. I've now come to the conclusion that these babies are now better used for either sniping or a trooper with high accuracy.

2) Laser and Plasma rifles.
-Lasers were our early workhorses in X-COM. In UFO I'd say that lasers still hold a place close to our hearts (and burn one in our enemies). With no ammo and good firepower these are very useful and sometimes the only weapons deployed. And with most games seeming to ban or at least discourage Flying Power Armor, they are far more useful. The disadvantage to laser is that they have bad accuracy. I've played around with lasers and I seem to find that on auto they are less affective unless at close range. Farther distances are better fought with aimed or snap shots.
-Now plasma rifles have gained breath of fresh air. With the balancing of the Hvy. Plasma rifle these rifles are now much more useful. The downside to this, the cost of these weapons is pretty steep (esp. when you add that extra clip). On games with few points, you can have only so many. This leads me to believe that on high point games plasma is the weapon of choice but if it is low points (or you just like unlimited ammo) laser is the way to go.

These I feel are the main changes. Most of the other weapons have not changed (for example, Hvy lasers still are crap).

Edited by Hailfire22, 10 September 2004 - 08:14 PM.


#7 Blehm 98

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Posted 10 September 2004 - 11:00 PM

Heavy plasma has severely increased weight too. My weaklings actually have trouble moving now
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#8 Hailfire22

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Posted 12 September 2004 - 02:25 AM

Heavy plasma has severely increased weight too.  My weaklings actually have trouble moving now

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


True but you only suffer that problem if you have more things on your men (explosives and such). But I don't suffer that problem because I just don't use them much anymore (after seeing how my men can't throw ANYTHING in a straight line). On 25 strength (the lowest) you can hold a hvy plasma, one clip, and 2 or 3 grenades if you're one of those who levels whole maps. :D

#9 Blehm 98

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Posted 12 September 2004 - 08:09 AM

i have 28 grenades total split amongst all my guys... alien grenades
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#10 Hobbes

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Posted 12 September 2004 - 10:34 AM

Heavy plasma has severely increased weight too.  My weaklings actually have trouble moving now

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


True but you only suffer that problem if you have more things on your men (explosives and such). But I don't suffer that problem because I just don't use them much anymore (after seeing how my men can't throw ANYTHING in a straight line). On 25 strength (the lowest) you can hold a hvy plasma, one clip, and 2 or 3 grenades if you're one of those who levels whole maps. :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I think it's useless to carry spare clips for the heavy plasmas. Since they don't have autofire capability it takes a long time to use a single clip.

#11 Hailfire22

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Posted 12 September 2004 - 03:43 PM

I think it's useless to carry spare clips for the heavy plasmas. Since they don't have autofire capability it takes a long time to use a single clip.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I see your point. It's probably just a habit that I need to get rid of. :hammer:

#12 Hobbes

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Posted 12 September 2004 - 03:48 PM

I see your point. It's probably just a habit that I need to get rid of. :hammer:

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I haven't been able to get rid of it myself....the occasional clip keeps reappearing on my soldiers :rolleyes:

#13 Paladin

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Posted 13 September 2004 - 12:13 PM

Even in XCOM I don'T carry an extra clip, takes forever to empty one of those, and even then you can simply pick up spare clips lying everywhere... :D
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#14 Hailfire22

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 09:36 AM

Hey Hobbes, is 451 better than 445? I just downloaded 445 then I saw 451 but I don't know if there are any changes that are major in 451. And also, when are you on the server? I've played around with my squad a little and I'd like a little.....rematch. :D Should be fun, on the boards I'm only 4 or 5 below you.

Edited by Hailfire22, 14 September 2004 - 09:41 AM.


#15 Hobbes

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 10:00 AM

Hey Hobbes, is 451 better than 445? I just downloaded 445 then I saw 451 but I don't know if there are any changes that are major in 451.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


There's a ChangeLog page that lists the changes and bugs fixed between each version.

And also, when are you on the server? I've played around with my squad a little and I'd like a little.....rematch. :D


You're on next time I see you on the server ;)

#16 Hailfire22

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 10:02 AM

You're on next time I see you on the server ;)

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All right then. :D

Edited by Hailfire22, 14 September 2004 - 10:03 AM.


#17 Hailfire22

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 05:29 PM

I'd also like to add another tactic.

If your enemies men panick in an area that you have seen, their weapons that are on the groud will be show, so if you see them panick, look for their weapons! This is very useful and can either give you an edge or just help you finish off those last few guys......

#18 Hobbes

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 10:31 PM

How to beat defensive tactics:

- If the opponent has or most likely will occupy a defensible position with plenty of cover (buildings, hills, vegetation, etc.) there are three techniques possible: frontal assault, long range fire and flanking maneuver.
- One essential requirement is firepower, preferably area weapons that can wreck as much of the terrain as possible, eroding his cover.
- Frontal assaults are done best against an outnumbered enemy. The troops advance slowly, taking whatever cover as possible and constantly setting a smoke cover in front of them to prevent detection from the enemy.
- With long range fire a scout advances and tries to determine the enemy's position. When a unit is spotted all of the other units fire on it. The important thing is to keep the scout alive: if the enemy kills it, the troops will be firing blindly.
- In flanking maneuver most of the squad advances by the top or the bottom of the map instead of risking being caught open in the center. The important thing is that it doesn't move from the direction which the enemy expects the main attack. That way the most likely (and wanted) outcome will be that most of his troops will be facing the wrong way and powerless to support the flank under attack.

All of this can be combined: a flanking maneuver can be made by a smaller scouting group to determine the enemy positions while the main body advances to firing positions. When the scouts detect the enemy, the main body switches to a firing support position to neutralize it.
And, finally, none might work because the enemy has finally decided to move forward also.

#19 Hailfire22

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Posted 15 September 2004 - 06:36 PM

Hobbes, what do you feel is the correct way to deploy your troops? I usually have 5-6 guys on one end (the one which is easily defended or has a lot of cover) and the other flank having 4-5 men (flankers). Of course the flankers have the chance of meeting the enemy but then my other flank can just come around and use the cover they have to wipe out the other team. ^_^

#20 Hobbes

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Posted 15 September 2004 - 08:19 PM

Hobbes, what do you feel is the correct way to deploy your troops?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Depends on too many stuff: terrain, number of soldiers, weapons, your personal style, etc.
Your tactic sounds good because both groups can support one another when one of them make contact with the opponent. However, there's one thing that the other guy can exploit because he will see it as the logical thing for you to do. So, instead of sending his main force towards your defensible position he might as well place the bulk of his force on the other direction and first take care of your flankers before your main group can support them. By then you would have few good choices left: to keep your guys in position and wait for his attack, which now can come from another direction making defense harder (and probably you will be outnumbered as well) or to move and try to make up your losses by picking his stragglers.
But getting back to your original situation, imagine that instead of you deploying the main force on the defensible position, you place them on the other side of the map. The guy attacks your position thinking that your guys are there (while in truth there's only a couple of them making a lot of fire and noise), but instead they are circling around, killing his flankers and making an unwelcome appearance at his flank.
This can be very risky to pull off and can easily backfire if he finds out what you are doing. But even so he will be reacting to you, which is always a bonus.
Another thing I remembered: if you realize you made a mistake on the original deployment during the initial turns usually there's time to correct it, unless the map is a small one. One important thing is to figure out his plan and adapt your original one to the new circunstances.

#21 Hailfire22

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 03:32 PM

Thanks for the info Hobbes. It helps to know it's a "sound" strategy. Of course I do change this from time to time, keeps my opponent on their feet. ^_^

And actually I thought of another way you could actually defeat it. If my groups are not close together you could go through the "hole" and flank BOTH groups. Of course this is on the bigger maps, on the smallest you'll just get gunned down. :LOL:

#22 Hailfire22

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 08:21 PM

You're on next time I see you on the server ;)

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Wow. Just played the rematch against Hobbes and I'd have to say that was the BEST game I've ever played. :LOL: Even though I was losing :crying: I used some psy-warfare :naughty: against him. Hobbes thought I was bunkered down in a warehouse and a small one story home, too bad he guessed wrong. But later on come the shocking part, to even things up he send some of his men for me to KILL. :o Fortunately I was able to pull out a win (thanks to a hidden spotter ^_^ ). But overall I'd say Hobbes is a great UFO player (the best I've played against so far) and that was the most hilarious, strangest, and awesome game to date. :happybanana:

Edited by Hailfire22, 16 September 2004 - 08:27 PM.


#23 Hailfire22

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Posted 17 September 2004 - 03:40 PM

I'd like to submit another tactic to use in your battles. I call it psy-warfare. The basis of this tactic is to use your enemies own brain against them. To do this make them believe they are hurting you much more than they are or down right trick them into attacking a house with no one in it. Using this tactic can be very useful, buying you time to set up an attack or lure your opponent into a trap. The only thing about this is that it can be done to you too so beware.

#24 Hobbes

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Posted 18 September 2004 - 03:28 PM

I'd like to submit another tactic to use in your battles. I call it psy-warfare. The basis of this tactic is to use your enemies own brain against them. To do this make them believe they are hurting you much more than they are or down right trick them into attacking a house with no one in it. Using this tactic can be very useful, buying you time to set up an attack or lure your opponent into a trap. The only thing about this is that it can be done to you too so beware.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Deception can be useful as a plasma rifle.....just remembered not to be looking down the barrel when you fire it :LOL:

#25 Hailfire22

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Posted 21 September 2004 - 04:06 PM

Deception can be useful as a plasma rifle.....just remembered not to be looking down the barrel when you fire it   :LOL:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Unless the other person is doing it. Then I'd be all for them looking down the barrel! :LOL:

Edited by Hailfire22, 21 September 2004 - 04:07 PM.


#26 Hailfire22

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Posted 10 October 2004 - 01:41 PM

Ok, it seems as if this thread hasn't had anything new for awhile. But fear not, for there will be more strategies soon! Actually I need some help. How do you take screenshots in UFO2000 with having them come out as .pcx (or something like that)?

What I have in mind will be a guide on how to use the buildings and other structures in various maps. I feel as if every map needs different strategies for it (seeing how they are all different). An example of this would be a guide on how to use the pyramids in cydonia. And if anyone wants to help me in this quest feel free to put your own ideas, tactics, etc.

Edit: WITHOUT them coming out as .pcx

Edited by Hailfire22, 11 October 2004 - 07:33 AM.


#27 Twilight Owl

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Posted 11 October 2004 - 05:35 AM

How do you take screenshots in UFO2000 with having them come out as .pcx (or something like that)?


F12.
Sorry for my English :)

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#28 Hailfire22

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Posted 11 October 2004 - 10:34 AM

How do you take screenshots in UFO2000 with having them come out as .pcx (or something like that)?


F12.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Sorry, I meant WITHOUT them coming out as .pcx. I don't have anything that can read those kinds of files. <_<

#29 Hobbes

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Posted 11 October 2004 - 10:55 AM

You can try 123 Graphic Converter. It's shareware so you wont be able to convert large graphic files but it works fine for me with the smaller UFO images.

#30 Hailfire22

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Posted 11 October 2004 - 04:39 PM

You can try 123 Graphic Converter. It's shareware so you wont be able to convert large graphic files but it works fine for me with the smaller UFO images.

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Thanks Hobbes. I'll probably download it this weekend and try converting some of the images I already have.

#31 HaJo

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Posted 12 October 2004 - 03:45 AM

You can try 123 Graphic Converter.
It's shareware so you wont be able to convert large graphic files
but it works fine for me with the smaller UFO images.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


For graphics, I can recommand http://www.irfanview.com.
It is free for private use.

#32 Hailfire22

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Posted 12 October 2004 - 02:09 PM

For graphics, I can recommand http://www.irfanview.com.
It is free for private use.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I tried the link and it just takes me to another site that does nothing :huh?: You have any other links? Also, how large is the file? I have a 56k modem so anything too big I won't probably bother downloading <_<

#33 HaJo

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Posted 12 October 2004 - 03:59 PM

For graphics, I can recommand http://www.irfanview.com.
It is free for private use.


I tried the link and it just takes me to another site that does nothing :huh?: You have any other links?
Also, how large is the file? I have a 56k modem so anything too big I won't probably bother downloading <_<

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


http://irfanview.tuw...at/iview392.exe - 850 KB.
This contains the most important stuff.

There is an extra package with plugins that enables irfanview
to display a lot of other / exotic formats, about 4.5 MB.

Otherwise, you can visit the usual suspects, e.g.
http://www.tucows.co...95_default.html,
http://www.freewareH..._Viewers_t.html
www.nonags.com, etc.

#34 Hailfire22

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Posted 12 October 2004 - 04:41 PM

Ok, I've downloaded the iview392 and will probably get crackin' on my "project" this weekend. And just wondering, is anyone else gonna try to do the same thing?

#35 Hailfire22

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Posted 17 October 2004 - 06:50 PM

Ok, here is my first guide on maps.

The first one is on the Cydonia maps. I have discovered these to be the most difficult of all the maps because although there is quite a bit of cover, using it to its full potential is hard. The best defensive position in the tileset it using the pyramid with the four doors.

snapshot_1.jpg

You can use that position to either hold your ground -OR- to attack using the pyramid as cover or as a staging point.

Also, avoid the green rooms! There is currently a bug that allows you to see inside of them without going inside. Very dangerous and can get you kill easily!

Edited by Micah, 18 October 2004 - 12:31 AM.


#36 dzi

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Posted 15 March 2005 - 02:05 AM

OK guys, I'll tell You what's the best tactics.
Do what Your opponent doesn't want You to do.
Simple as it is ;)

#37 Exo2000

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Posted 15 March 2005 - 05:21 AM

That's not really a tactic so much as a given.

It's like saying "here's your tactics. Shoot the enemy." and it's basically the same. The opponent doesn't -want- you shooting his men. So what do you do? Shoot his men!

Nothing beats 70 Accuracy combined with 70 Reactions, full TU and a Heavy Laser/Laser Rifle. Seriously, I actually scared someone with how fast my soldiers reacted. He got one shot off per man before they swung round and filled the offender full of laserholes. :)

I lost in the end though.

EDIT: I suppose it would work equally well for Plasmas too, but I <3 Lasers.

Has anyone else noticed? The Laser beams from Apocalypse look distinctly like a revisit to the original X-COM. I only just thought about it, but if you think about it, they are fairly similar.

Edited by Exo2000, 15 March 2005 - 05:29 AM.

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#38 dzi

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Posted 15 March 2005 - 07:18 AM

That's not really a tactic so much as a given.

And only one that always works :P

Nothing beats 70 Accuracy combined with 70 Reactions, full TU and a Heavy Laser/Laser Rifle.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No no no, 80acc + 80 react + plasma riffles of my soldiers beats it ;)


ps: I know that I'm talking like I know how to play but remember, don't get confused about it ;)

#39 Exo2000

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Posted 15 March 2005 - 10:32 AM

Yeah, but I was balancing with health and time too, 80 Acc/Reacc leaves little points for other stats such as health and timeunits ;)
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#40 dzi

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Posted 15 March 2005 - 10:44 AM

we will meet at the battlefield and verify it ;)

#41 Exo2000

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Posted 15 March 2005 - 12:33 PM

Busy downloading something ATM - you'll have to wait ;)
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#42 Citral

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 10:08 AM

Easy but effective:

Line up your men on one side of the map with (auto)canons and rocket launchers.
Shoot all your shells and rockets in the general direction of your enemy.
Drink some :Coffee: while listening to the screams of your enemy :P

^_^

#43 Exo2000

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 10:24 AM

And then the screams of your own men dying as they run out of ammo and the remaining enemies slaughter them. >=D
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#44 Hobbes

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 12:24 PM

Easy but effective:

Line up your men on one side of the map with (auto)canons and rocket launchers.
Shoot all your shells and rockets in the general direction of your enemy.
Drink some :Coffee: while listening to the screams of your enemy  :P

^_^

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Not that easy but also effective:

Keep your soldiers on the open and spread out, not firing and moving slowly to the direction, while throwing grenades ahead to create smoke to prevent them from being spotted. Expect a couple of casualties from the incoming fire but keep slowly advancing. When your scouts spot the location of the missile troops take them down 1 at the time. Repeat until the enemy is all dead :devillaugh:

#45 Citral

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 11:18 AM

Hehe, that asumes your enemy doesn't have a nice batch of plasma rifles waiting for you. :P

I really wub smoke grenades btw, even my cheapo team doesn't go without 20 of 'em!
Wouldn't know how to play without them, I just don't don't feel safe if I don't have some nice smoke screen infront of my advancing troops. :blush1:

#46 Hobbes

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 12:12 PM

Hehe, that asumes your enemy doesn't have a nice batch of plasma rifles waiting for you.  :P


The more plasma the enemy has the better. Either he will have to shoot blindly into smoke or to become sitting ducks while waiting for reaction shots.

#47 Specter597

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Posted 02 April 2005 - 10:25 AM

Determining which tactics will best suite your match isn't easy though ... you have to take into account where you are fighting and whether or not you will get the first turn. I peronally find that specializing my unit too much (either too many rifles or too many explosives) is a sure path toward painful defeat. So when I go in I like to have a basically two comprable fire squads each with 70% Rifles 20% Heavy weapons and 10% scout capabilities.

15 Missle launchers never won a battle. :Help:

(Though the fun you'll have is priceless. :devillaugh: )

~Specter

#48 MadRat

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 04:57 AM

"18. All warfare is based on deception.

19. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable;
when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we
are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away;
when far away, we must make him believe we are near.

20. Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder,
and crush him.

21. If he is secure at all points, be prepared for him.
If he is in superior strength, evade him.

22. If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to
irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.

23. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest.
If his forces are united, separate them.

24. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where
you are not expected.

25. These military devices, leading to victory,
must not be divulged beforehand."

Sun Tzu on the Art of War

#49 Archaon376

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 02:16 PM

The thing I love about this game is the surprises you get from your enemy. It's always fun walking 3 of your men into a missile trap ^^

#50 nachtwolf

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 07:56 PM

Tactic that works for chess, and ufo.

Keep your opponents one move behind, make them react at all times.
When they react, they usually won't plan their attack, and while they reacts, you can plan yours. :Poke:
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