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ART - Issue #104 - Raptor Model


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#1 Vaaish

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 04:51 PM

Just starting the topic .

#2 fux0r666

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 06:03 PM

I think that fidel_ has a model for this going.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#3 Vaaish

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 07:32 PM

I've not received anything or seen the model posted, if he posts it we can carry on from there if not I can't hold it down especially since he's supposed to be texturing the Grey.

#4 red knight

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 09:23 PM

@eamon: Post the pictures with the attachment facilities at the forum, instead of in the bug tracker stored in an external server. That way we can have the history of the model. You should upload too intermediate dotXSI files in the bug tracker too ;).

@Vaaish: Is it me, or the concept of the raptor is a more stylish (not so big), cause we will have serious dimension problems if the size of the alien is that. I couldnt find it in forums, but I bet I saw the heavy version of that concept as one of the intermediate ideas that had been considered.

Just for documentation purposes, the concept is this one:
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#5 Vaaish

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 09:38 PM

RK: I'm not getting what you are saying... if you mean in terms of squares the pose the concept is in kinda spreads him out more than it should.

#6 red knight

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 10:08 PM

I should have been sleeping already :P, lets see if this extra comment helps ;)

Yes it looks a little to heavy, and in that pose (resting) it takes way more than 2 squares . And that would be a serious trouble.

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Red Knight

Edited by red knight, 01 February 2005 - 10:09 PM.

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#7 Vaaish

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 06:42 AM

ok, no IIRC it will take up 2 squares long instead of wide to accommodate the tail, and I believe the creature is streched out in that shot. looks more like how it would look attacking or moving than stationary. (it won't be an issue for the attack animations to go outside of the square will it?)

Edited by Vaaish, 02 February 2005 - 06:46 AM.


#8 red knight

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 07:36 AM

Mhhh I dont think it would be ok, to invade back places... Unless attacking one guy would cause the creature to nock down who is at the back with the tail.

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#9 Vaaish

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 09:20 AM

Mhhh I dont think it would be ok, to invade back places... Unless attacking one guy would cause the creature to nock down who is at the back with the tail.

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<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



in order to prevent that we would have to make the creature take up 4 square, eg

++
++


instead of

+
+

#10 fux0r666

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 10:52 AM

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This is what the model looks like..

Edited by fux0r666, 02 February 2005 - 10:53 AM.


Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#11 red knight

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 11:01 AM

Fux, but where is the model? Upload it here so eamon can continue with it.

Greetings
Red Knight

Edited by red knight, 02 February 2005 - 11:51 AM.

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Visit my blog at: flois.blogspot.com

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Pookie cover me, I am going in.

#12 Vaaish

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 11:02 AM

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This is what the model looks like..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



do we have a 3ds or any other portion of the model... or just those shots? if you have the model I need to get it to eamon so he can work on texturing instead of redoing work thats already finished.

#13 fux0r666

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 11:08 AM

do we have a 3ds or any other portion of the model... or just those shots? if you have the model I need to get it to eamon so he can work on texturing instead of redoing work thats already finished.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I assume that the model is on Fidel__'s hdd. You or I or both could ask him for it.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#14 Vaaish

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 11:42 AM

I'll see if I can drum it up off him :)

#15 fidel_

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Posted 04 February 2005 - 01:36 PM

Here's the model. Sorry, been busy with lots of stuff lately.

edit: it's unfinished of course as the concept thread for it was closed down when I was modeling it.

Attached Files


Edited by fidel_, 04 February 2005 - 01:41 PM.

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#16 Vaaish

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Posted 04 February 2005 - 03:02 PM

thanks fidel.

ok here are shots of the work in progress model the eamon is doing

http://lightshift.th...t/pictures.html

He still doesn't have rights to post in the thread (working on that)

#17 eamon

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 10:26 PM

Well I can post here now (and it was my own fault I couldn't post before now as I came to find out)

Anyway the WIP is looking good (but don't take my word for it)

It does not have any "real" textures yet and has 1611 polys (once I turn it in to tri-gons). The model "as is" can be found in the bug tracker Issue #104 in 3 formats (.obj .3ds and .ms3d)

Please let me know what you think :hmmm:

-Eamon
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#18 Vaaish

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 06:46 AM

Good, though the legs from the front are still troubling. Thre is something not right with the anatomy with the way they are the same thickness from top to bottom. as a gerneral example, look at how a himan leg is formed, the muscle contours etc, it's not just a tube straight down. The side view is still looking pretty good.

#19 eamon

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 11:56 AM

Good, though the legs from the front are still troubling. Thre is something not right with the anatomy with the way they are the same thickness from top to bottom.  as a gerneral example, look at how a himan leg is formed, the muscle contours etc, it's not just a tube straight down. The side view is still looking pretty good.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Well here is another stab at it... :)

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-Eamon
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#20 fux0r666

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 05:10 PM

That's good work, Eamon. The geometry is clean and the model is *very* true to the concept. Vaaish and I were discussing the models and, for better or for worse, we came to the conclusion that we like the configuration of Fidel__'s take on the concept better. It looks more fleet footed and predatory. I was wondering if you would care to work your magic on Fidel__'s model. Fidel__ admits that the geometry isn't as clean as yours, but we do like the shape better. Fidel__ has roughed in some detail but it lacks claws, etc. If you decide to take it up, we like your work in the claws; the optimum outcome would be for you to keep the splayed toes of Fidel__'s monster but to put your claws on them, and to detail up the model as you see fit.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#21 eamon

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 05:28 PM

That's good work, Eamon.  The geometry is clean and the model is *very* true to the concept.  Vaaish and I were discussing the models and, for better or for worse, we came to the conclusion that we like the configuration of Fidel__'s take on the concept better.  It looks more fleet footed and predatory.  I was wondering if you would care to work your magic on Fidel__'s model.  Fidel__ admits that the geometry isn't as clean as yours, but we do like the shape better.  Fidel__ has roughed in some detail but it lacks claws, etc.  If you decide to take it up, we like your work in the claws; the optimum outcome would be for you to keep the splayed toes of Fidel__'s monster but to put your claws on them, and to detail up the model as you see fit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


hey... no hard feelings :) I will put my claws into the his feet.

Do you want to keep his two claws in the front one in the back or my three claws in the front one in the back?

Do you want the toes to angle down like in his model or to be above ground level?

I will try to cleen up the geometry and lower the poly count and get back to you.

-Eamon
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#22 fux0r666

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 06:44 PM

The toes angled down Is a relaxed position, I think. Something like this only with those wicked claws yours and J'ordos's would work nicely, I think:

Posted Image

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I think that we should the 3 toed feet (2 in front, one in back), because nothing on earth looks like that. If it ends up not working out, I'll take the blame and alter it :)

edit: on second thought, the more I look at that owl foot with the recessed toe, the more I like it. Maybe put to toes with claws on front, one for stability on the back, and a recessed one on the outside. Deleting/altering a toe will be easier than adding one.

Edited by fux0r666, 09 February 2005 - 06:46 PM.


Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#23 eamon

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 09:24 PM

That's good work, Eamon.  The geometry is clean and the model is *very* true to the concept.  Vaaish and I were discussing the models and, for better or for worse, we came to the conclusion that we like the configuration of Fidel__'s take on the concept better.  It looks more fleet footed and predatory.  I was wondering if you would care to work your magic on Fidel__'s model.  Fidel__ admits that the geometry isn't as clean as yours, but we do like the shape better.  Fidel__ has roughed in some detail but it lacks claws, etc.  If you decide to take it up, we like your work in the claws; the optimum outcome would be for you to keep the splayed toes of Fidel__'s monster but to put your claws on them, and to detail up the model as you see fit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Thanks fux0r666 for your really good feedback.

Well this is an overhaul of the model... it now has 1513 polys (down from 2054 polys) and hopefully has a look that everyone will like... (but I am still open to all ideas)

-Eamon

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#24 fux0r666

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 11:24 PM

This owl-like body intruiges me. What was your headspace when you decided to take the design in this direction?

One issue I think is the shape of the head from above. It looks pinched to me.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#25 eamon

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Posted 10 February 2005 - 12:08 AM

This owl-like body intruiges me.  What was your headspace when you decided to take the design in this direction?

One issue I think is the shape of the head from above.  It looks pinched to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Headspace? :hmmm: Are you asking me or Fidel__? He is the one that designed the look of the body and head. His model had a pinched head and I did not change the look at all.

What I have done is lower the poly count, add symmetry, make the new feet, and remove the pipes on the back of the legs. I know this may sound strange but did you get to look at Fidel__'s model from all sides? :huh: If you did not get to, I can send you any view of his original model that you would like.

-Eamon

Edit: Now as for the sizing of this monster... here is what you get when put the model with no streching into the 1m-x-1m-x-2.5m box. (the alien is just for size comparison and stands 1.5m* tall)

*average human hight

X
X

Posted Image
Posted Image

Edited by eamon, 10 February 2005 - 01:08 PM.

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#26 fux0r666

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Posted 10 February 2005 - 03:39 PM

This owl-like body intruiges me.  What was your headspace when you decided to take the design in this direction?

One issue I think is the shape of the head from above.  It looks pinched to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


What program are you using? I think there is a problem with the importation. Screenshots of what the model should look like are located up the page.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#27 j'ordos

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Posted 10 February 2005 - 05:48 PM

I think it's Lightwave, but it's been a while since last time that I used that so I'm not 100% sure.
What looks strange to me are the straight legs in front view, I think it would be better to pronounce the knee joint a little more, so the leg is not the same width over almost the entire lenght.
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#28 eamon

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Posted 10 February 2005 - 05:49 PM

What program are you using?  I think there is a problem with the importation.  Screenshots of what the model should look like are located up the page.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I am using Lightwave 3d v7 and have not had a broblem importing in the past. I would check with Fidel__ to see if his model had that look before. :)

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#29 mikker

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 05:35 AM

Kinda reminds me of the Zaurus in Breath of Fire 4.

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#30 kafros

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 08:44 AM

Shouldn't the reaper be ~2.1M Tall?

#31 mikker

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 09:17 AM

yeah - it should be twice the size.

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#32 eamon

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 06:38 AM

I will do up a new size comparison sometime tomarrow. I have had some long hours at work the last few days :wacko:

it will fit in a 2X2 block... thanks for the feedback :)

XX
XX

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#33 fux0r666

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 03:16 PM

Something will always remind someone of something else. What is the purpose of bringing this to our attention?

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#34 eamon

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Posted 14 February 2005 - 09:21 AM

Well I still have not tried to "stuff/strech" the model into the box just size it into it. It stands 2.1m tall. and as you can see the tail exstends out of the box a little bit...

I think if I make it 2m tall and bend the tail down more I can get it to fit... Feedback?

and also feedback on the model (here are several views)
Pictures

the attached Zip has the raptor as it is now (not sized) in the following formats:
.3ds
.obj
.mesh
.ms3d
.XSI

-Eamon

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Attached Files


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#35 Vaaish

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Posted 14 February 2005 - 08:52 PM

Starting to take shape nicely. the feet are looking much better now. it still looks a little odd on the insides of the feet and how they attach to the legs but good job.

#36 red knight

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Posted 15 February 2005 - 12:43 PM

Try to make it fit. 10 to 20 cm less is good enough... The most pressing issue is the 2x2 constrain, not the highness (even if it can become an issue later ;) ). If you have to constrain it, PM Azrael about the change to the CTD.

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Visit my blog at: flois.blogspot.com

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#37 Darkhomb

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 01:32 PM

Well I'm trying to help out alittle but as I told Vaaish I don't want to assign myself to anything yet cuz even though i have some time at the moment it can change, but i've been trying to help with uvmaping some of the models. heres my progress on this so far.

Attached Files


Edited by Darkhomb, 13 December 2005 - 03:05 PM.


#38 fux0r666

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 01:43 PM

looks pretty sweet!

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#39 Darkhomb

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 01:45 PM

I would like to ask you since I'm new on this, how much stretching is tolerable and where would the seams be good for this? right now there down the middle cuz i don't think its going to be a dead on view and the sides would get more but not sure whats best.

Edited by Darkhomb, 13 December 2005 - 01:45 PM.


#40 Vaaish

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 01:58 PM

what you have looks pretty good. There appears to be some minor seam issues where the front of the lg joins the body but for the most part it appears pretty good.

To answer your question... as little stretching as possible the the less visable teh area or the less detail an area has the more stretching is tollerable.

#41 Darkhomb

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 04:50 PM

Yeah the seams I will work on. I finished getting the stretching perfect and mapped. I'm done for the night though. Still some more to stitch together but alot is done. I worked on this thing all day. I think its not bad for my first time.

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Edited by Darkhomb, 13 December 2005 - 04:51 PM.


#42 Darkhomb

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Posted 14 December 2005 - 04:40 AM

Ok well I wasn't trying to modify the model but there is an open edge on both feet, if you look at the pictures, i then divided the bottom one and welded the vertex together to close it so I can finish stitching. Is this ok?

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  • Attached File  mod.JPG   54.23K   37 downloads


#43 Darkhomb

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Posted 14 December 2005 - 06:10 AM

Ok well I went ahead and fixed a couple more open edges and pretty much done until you tell me how you want me to change it for the seams. I want to redo the feet because there are small faces I do not see and i want both ft to match and right now the top and bottom are uneven for left and right.

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Edited by Darkhomb, 14 December 2005 - 06:12 AM.


#44 Vaaish

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Posted 14 December 2005 - 06:31 AM

every thing looks good so far. One way of matching the UV's on the feet would be to cut the model in half and mirror it. that should give you matching UV's. Also, once you get finished tweaking you need to arrange the unwrapped UV's into a square so that you maximize the amout of space used in a 512x512 area. You can scale portions of the uv's up or down depending on how important they are. Eg. you might scale the uvs on the top of the body up in this case since they will be the most visible. THis will give their textures a higher res appearance since it uses more of the texture space than say the bottom of the foot.

#45 Darkhomb

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Posted 14 December 2005 - 06:35 AM

Ok, but as for closing the edges was ok? as for the feet, instead of mirroring them, I made them the same so they can over lap each other and you only have to paint one anyway, is this ok?
attached sample for feet.

*Fixed some spelling issues

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  • Attached File  ft.JPG   59.15K   36 downloads

Edited by Darkhomb, 14 December 2005 - 06:41 AM.


#46 Darkhomb

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Posted 14 December 2005 - 06:49 AM

Kinda like this?

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  • Attached File  pack.JPG   65.03K   49 downloads


#47 Vaaish

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Posted 14 December 2005 - 08:16 AM

yeah kinda like that.... I think you can play tetris a bit more and fit it more tightly. On the feet are there separate sections for the top and bottom of the feet and what are the tiny little parts on teh UV map? Bascially what you do is rotate and scale the two largest sections of the map so that they fit in and then rotate and scale the rest of the pieces so that the fit like a jigsaw puzzle.

#48 Darkhomb

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Posted 14 December 2005 - 08:37 AM

Those tiny sections are the 2 front teeth and whatever the other 4 teeth like things are on the left and right inside of the mouth. the feet are broken into top and bottom. I could disconnect the "claws" and make them separate if it would be better

#49 Vaaish

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Posted 14 December 2005 - 08:52 AM

Those tiny sections are the 2 front teeth and whatever the other 4 teeth like things are on the left and right inside of the mouth. the feet are broken into top and bottom. I could disconnect the "claws" and make them separate if it would be better

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


no as long as they are broken into top and bottem it'll be fine.

To help unify the map, combine all the teeth into a single item (don't merge the seams, just put them on top of each other and matchthe shape) so that we don't have to paint the texture for each individual tooth, just a single one for all of them.

#50 Darkhomb

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Posted 14 December 2005 - 10:33 AM

I can do that, Same as I will for the feet. It will be 2 sets though because the front teeth are diffrent but it will work. I just wanted to lay all the uvs out to show you.