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#351 Vaaish

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Posted 29 July 2003 - 05:32 PM

not bad... think you can make the cut off part of the circle not so obvious... looks strange with it doubled on there like that.

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Posted 29 July 2003 - 05:44 PM

OK, I'll do it when I get back from work 2morrow, it wasn't actually intentional it was just the way it came out from PS so it shouldn't take much effort to correct.

#353 miceless

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Posted 29 July 2003 - 11:20 PM

Is it possible to make it look worn and faded in certain areas. At the moment it looks like it was painted yesterday. Can you fade the lines in a few areas to make it look used?
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#354 Breunor

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Posted 30 July 2003 - 06:59 AM

The paint job's looking great, yah it can be faded more so it doesn't stand out as much when tiled on there. I agree with having posts supporting the boards, they could just be 3 or 4 sided tubes.

#355 miceless

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Posted 30 July 2003 - 07:03 AM

Poles would indeed be needed if there was no wall for the board to hang on. At the moment it looks like they are in mid air (or maybe hanging on the fence?). Since we cant guarantee there will be a wall, i would add them to be safe. Its not hard/poly-heavy is it?
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Posted 30 July 2003 - 07:05 AM

k, I'll do the posts when I get home, poly's aren't such a problem since it's only 250 odd now, considering it's the size of a small house ( possibly 3000 polys ) it's not much of a concern 2 do 4x4 sided posts. I'll also c if I can make the pattern more faded, shouldn't be a problem.

Edit: Here's the l8st pic 4 the BB Court. Is the court lines faded enough? Too much? As always I value ur opinion as I know not what I do :)

BTW, does ne1 else think the hoops are a little 2 big? Or is it just me?

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Edited by Jim69, 30 July 2003 - 03:20 PM.


#357 j'ordos

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Posted 31 July 2003 - 08:16 AM

Here's the oil tank mapped, this is the higher poly version, comes @ 262.
In game wouldn't be so close of course, there's a pic with different viewing distances a page or two back, comparing this one with the lower poly version.

EDIT: texture map is 128*128, ladder is two 32*128 maps, but I'm trying to get that all in a single 128*128 map.

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Edited by j'ordos, 31 July 2003 - 08:17 AM.

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#358 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 31 July 2003 - 08:24 AM

I think the tank texture looks a little blocky, is that coz of the size of it? Maybe u could repeat it a little more

Edit: Just read ur edit, LOL.

Edited by Jim69, 31 July 2003 - 08:25 AM.


#359 j'ordos

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Posted 31 July 2003 - 08:41 AM

heh, since no one ever will see it this close apart from us, I figured there's no reason for giving it a larger texture map than that.
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#360 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 31 July 2003 - 09:39 AM

Yeah, true. Have u looked at it from the rough distance that the camera will be ( just use a WIII distance view, thats what I do ) in the perspective view? Does it look alright?

#361 Breunor

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Posted 31 July 2003 - 09:48 AM

That's the problem, we don't know just how close the camera might be. But I think the texture looks just fine, it will work much better when it's within a full modeled environment with lighting effects and all that. My screen resolution is higher than 800*600, and the tank still looked large, it would be huge at standard res. So imagine that pic at around 25% scale, and it looks good IMO.

#362 j'ordos

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Posted 31 July 2003 - 10:24 AM

Well, I can easily change it in to 256*256 if needed, takes 1 minute.
Here's a pic, 2 greater distances than the previous one, and a bit basic lighting, no shadows, radiosity or whatever.

Edit: the shape still isn't completely round, but I found it needed about 400 poly's to get that good, don't think the increase warrants another 150 polygons, but correct me if I'm wrong...

Edit2: will we require different models for different zoom levels? I still have that other oiltank @ 132 poly's, if zoomed out very far that's enough i guess.

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Edited by j'ordos, 31 July 2003 - 10:37 AM.

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#363 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 31 July 2003 - 02:36 PM

Oh OK I c, it looks fine from that distance, prob just the zoom.

#364 Breunor

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 07:18 AM

I switched my monitor to 800*600 res to look (oh, the horror!) and it's fine IMO. It doesn't have to be perfectly smooth, but if it really twists your panties in a bunch, you can use RK's suggestion and add extra verts just at the corner edges to smooth it more. I wouldn't worry about it though.

#365 Vaaish

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 03:04 PM

k, I'll do the posts when I get home, poly's aren't such a problem since it's only 250 odd now, considering it's the size of a small house ( possibly 3000 polys ) it's not much of a concern 2 do 4x4 sided posts. I'll also c if I can make the pattern more faded, shouldn't be a problem.

Edit: Here's the l8st pic 4 the BB Court. Is the court lines faded enough? Too much? As always I value ur opinion as I know not what I do :)

BTW, does ne1 else think the hoops are a little 2 big? Or is it just me?

The hoops might be a lttle large but the 3 point line should be touching the back arc of the free throw line.

#366 red knight

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 04:08 PM

The best way to check is using other models at comparizon... Take the power armor and put them side by side as if you were taking an ingame screenshot from Warcraft 3 as suggested, cause it has a similar isometric view...

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#367 j'ordos

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 04:51 PM

Is that armor up as .3ds anywhere? I can't seem to open/import those .obj files with max :(
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#368 Aosar

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 12:03 AM

Ummm, wasnt all of this covered a page or so ago in this very thread?

Damn! I dunno, maybe it was, but what good that info does to me now? :huh:

Oh, well... :LOL:

Edit: darn, I'll never get the hang of that quoting...

Edited by Aosar, 02 August 2003 - 12:06 AM.

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#369 miceless

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 12:08 AM

darn, I'll never get the hang of that quoting...

Hey, you seemed to get it right there.
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#370 Aosar

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 01:10 AM

Hey, you seemed to get it right there.


That's cause I edited the post, it used to have two quotes from ya...
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#371 miceless

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 02:09 AM

Oh well, better luck next time.
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Posted 02 August 2003 - 03:15 AM

The hoops might be a lttle large but the 3 point line should be touching the back arc of the free throw line.

I have no idea what u mean, I don't watch basketball. I copied the court lines off an official ( looking :P ) site that had the official rules of the game. Could ya like open the screenshot in PS or summint and circle the point u r talking about plz? Nice 1.

#373 miceless

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 06:35 AM

He means that the small semi-circle and the large semi-circle should meet at the edge. Look here:

Posted Image

EDIT: Better pic.

Edited by miceless, 02 August 2003 - 06:38 AM.

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#374 j'ordos

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 08:31 AM

Here are some more comparative oil tanks: left is least poly's, right is most. The left one is the one i had been using now (is not included in the back row), tank alone @ 192 polygons, second from left is @ 224 polygons, third is 320 4th is 432, 5th is 480 and 6th is 800. I can delete unseen faces and I'll be able to squeeze of some more, especially at the caps, but basically those are the figures. The hatch, supports and ladder together are 76 poly's (with unseen faces deleted) which have to be added to those numbers.
Unless we're willing to invest a high number of polygons there's going to be some visible hard edges.

Edit: well, looking at them again, there's no huge difference between them, unless we're going for the right half of the row, but they cost at least double the poly's.
If it needs to be smoother I think 4 or 5 would be a good choice, I think I can reduce that 432 to ~400 or 480 to ~450 resp.

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Edited by j'ordos, 02 August 2003 - 08:41 AM.

"You can't trust your eyes if your imagination's out of focus" - Mark Twain
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#375 Vaaish

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 08:50 AM

your last textured version was fine. Noone is going to look at the models and say it's a bad game because a battlescape item was not perfectly cyndrilical.

and there is no way that an oil tank should have to burn up about 500 polys. If this was an FPS, then maybe yes but a strategy game no.

Edited by Vaaish, 02 August 2003 - 08:51 AM.


#376 red knight

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 10:17 AM

First what unseen polys do you have there??? Remember that you will eventually see it from everywhere (except bottom) but bottom polys are not that much... On the other side, if you make the tank not that cilindrical it will look far better... use a model more smooth that do not have that abrupt cutoff on the sides... (try to to avoid using hard edges cause they will need lots of polygons and will look ugly - specially on non animated stuff or where you cant avoid it like in a table -)...

I dont know how to explain it, if you dont understand tell me and I will fire up a sheet of paper and do an sketch of it...

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#377 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 10:41 AM

He means that the small semi-circle and the large semi-circle should meet at the edge. Look here:

Posted Image

EDIT: Better pic.

OK, the pic don't work but I think I know what u mean now. I'll c what I can do a little l8r on and post a pic.

#378 j'ordos

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 01:30 PM

First what unseen polys do you have there??? Remember that you will eventually see it from everywhere (except bottom) but bottom polys are not that much... On the other side, if you make the tank not that cilindrical it will look far better... use a model more smooth that do not have that abrupt cutoff on the sides... (try to to avoid using hard edges cause they will need lots of polygons and will look ugly - specially on non animated stuff or where you cant avoid it like in a table -)...

I dont know how to explain it, if you dont understand tell me and I will fire up a sheet of paper and do an sketch of it...

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Well, there's the bottom, the more cylindrical the model is, the more poly's will remain unseen, and therefor, can be deleted.

But I don't really get what you mean by: 'not that cylindrical'. I think you mean a more smooth transition between the central part and the caps, i.e. a more rounded shape there? More of a cylinder with half of a sphere on each side? That looks less like an oil tank, but if you want I can do that.
(gee, wish I had never started on the bloody thing :wink: )
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#379 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 02:31 PM

If u wanna do that then there is a Capsule tool that works pretty well. I gotta say I recon the 1 u already done is fine. Less poly's the better, even with zoom u never gonna c it that close ne way.

#380 red knight

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 04:01 PM

Let me try to explain... take the cilinder and make the circle smaller and the cilinder a little larger... now you have a thin but large cilinder, then you make two domes (2 semispheres), if you try to make a sphere with them, you get an elipse instead of a sphere... Then you "or" (weld I think it is called) the 2 domes with the cilinder... and voila... got the idea?

If not I will definitly put out a piece of paper, and sharpen my pencils..

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Edited by red knight, 02 August 2003 - 04:03 PM.

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#381 j'ordos

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 04:09 PM

Ok, I think I got you now. I'll try that sometime tomorrow.
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#382 mikker

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 04:27 AM

Let me try to explain... take the cilinder and make the circle smaller and the cilinder a little larger... now you have a thin but large cilinder, then you make two domes (2 semispheres), if you try to make a sphere with them, you get an elipse instead of a sphere... Then you "or" (weld I think it is called) the 2 domes with the cilinder... and voila... got the idea?

If not I will definitly put out a piece of paper, and sharpen my pencils..

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You could also just click on the "capsule" extended shape ^_^

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#383 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 05:12 AM

Wow, what a brilliant idea, I wish I'd posted that already <_< :LOL:

#384 j'ordos

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 07:02 AM

Ok, here's one with the capsule tool ^_^ , but...
1) I believe it looks less like an oil tank now,
2) It doesn't look that much smoother
3) It requires much more polygons: the back tank is the original, 182 polygons with invisible faces deleted, front (capsule) tank is 270 polygons, invisible faces deleted...

Edit: I did make them longer, the original had a diameter of 2m, length 4m, now both have diameter 2m, length 6m.

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Edited by j'ordos, 03 August 2003 - 07:03 AM.

"You can't trust your eyes if your imagination's out of focus" - Mark Twain
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#385 miceless

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 07:11 AM

I think the difference is marginal, but i like the new one slightly better.
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#386 Aosar

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 07:12 AM

1) I believe it looks less like an oil tank now


I have to agree on this, unless the aim is to go for a newer, futuristic oil tank look? :huh:

2) It doesn't look that much smoother


On that I have to disagree though, it does look much smoother, but does it have to look that smooth? 'Cause after a good texturing you can't really see the low poly edges that well...
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Posted 03 August 2003 - 08:58 AM

Sayin that, 264 poly's really aint that much. Oil tanks are quite big, not huge but quite big, maybe taking up a 1/5 of the screen (?). Try it with a texture, and if u cant really see the difference then I guess there's no point. But untextured it looks much better, I think it looks like an oil tank too.

#388 j'ordos

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 09:43 AM

2) It doesn't look that much smoother


On that I have to disagree though, it does look much smoother, but does it have to look that smooth? 'Cause after a good texturing you can't really see the low poly edges that well...

I ment: if you see it in an isometric view, there's still that edge between the tank itself and the caps. It is a smooth transition in a frontal view, but not so in isometric...

But I'll try and come up with a texture for them both, maybe we could keep two different oil tanks :idea:
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#389 Breunor

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 09:52 AM

I think part of RK's point is that by smooth, he means shading groups smooth. The greater the angles are the more the vertex normals are angled from the faces, making weird shading problems. Looking at those last profile shots, you can see the angle changes are much smaller and therefore the shading will be smoother as well.

#390 demich

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 07:47 AM

Easy question: Are we going to make a diffrent outdoor models for each region like, Western Europe, Eastern Europe, Russia, China, America etc.?

#391 j'ordos

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 08:54 AM

I've been wondering about that too. But here are some more simple thingies. Left to right: party tent 52 polygons, table 72 polygons, lamp 81 polygons, signpost 60 polygons. Alterations needed?

Edit: forgot the pic :Blush:

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Edited by j'ordos, 05 August 2003 - 08:55 AM.

"You can't trust your eyes if your imagination's out of focus" - Mark Twain
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#392 miceless

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 10:50 AM

I would have said that they look great, but instead Ill say they suck.

They suck.

:D
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#393 mikker

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 11:42 AM

:naughty:

its 402 polys (proberly 804, because i used editable poly), but here you go.

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#394 mikker

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 11:43 AM

my inspiration

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#395 Aosar

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 11:47 AM

You probably can simplify the model greatly, 'cause the smaller details won't be showing from a isometric point of view...

For instance the cylinder that contains water can be just a simple straight cylinder and you probably can texture the differences...

Edited by Aosar, 05 August 2003 - 11:50 AM.

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#396 miceless

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 12:05 PM

We have one of those in our kitchen, if you would like some more inspiration or something.

Seems a bit hgh on the polys though.
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#397 mikker

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 12:26 PM

then the 2 who take op a 100/200 each can be removed and seen by texture?

the dynamic effect on the plastic container could also be then?


EDIT: if both above, it is 100/200, but can be lower.

Edited by mikker, 05 August 2003 - 12:30 PM.

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 01:58 PM

Easy question: Are we going to make a diffrent outdoor models for each region like, Western Europe, Eastern Europe, Russia, China, America etc.?

AFAIK, there will be as many recycled models with different textures as possible, and if there is a need 4 an exclusive model then there will be seperate models.

#399 Breunor

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 02:17 PM

Correct, we want to recycle as many models as possible to keep the game size down, so things like generic buildings might be reused, but textures for different regions would be swapped in. A perfect example would be billboards, the same model can use regional textures with different languages. Some models might not translate as well, for example an Indonesian farmer's hut would not look like a european farmer's house. But we'll be needing a large variety within the same region so they can be randomly picked. I can see having (as a rough example) 6 different farm house models, and 6 textures that fit each model. When this region picks a farm crash site, there's a total of 36 farm houses to choose from. Do that with each continent, and you've got several hundred designs. :happybanana:

#400 Aosar

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 02:33 PM

Remember; recycling - in both the world virtual and in RL - is good...

Easy question: Are we going to make a diffrent outdoor models for each region like, Western Europe, Eastern Europe, Russia, China, America etc.?


Not really, the difference should not be tied to region, but into culture. The Western culture (US, UK, Finland) have highly similar architecture(sp?). However natural items like trees are definedly tied to region...
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