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Ufo2000 Weapon Concepts Discussion


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#401 Exo2000

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 04:35 AM

All melee attacks from behind should be instantly lethal, no matter what. :D
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#402 bamb

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 03:12 PM

Gah, no "stealth" or anything like that. It's a stat game then, when everything's determined by them and not actual movement or tactical decisions.
You can already go behind obstacles and crouch, no need to further abstract it to a higher level with some stat trickery.

Melee proficiency is debatable. I'm not in favor of adding new stats that are used very rarely, but there is already atm the throwing accuracy one, and this would probably be more used. There are already reaction stats, TU:s, health and armor.

It would be fun if melee weapons could be used for reaction fire. Hiding with a sword in a hole next to the door...

Maybe indeed like exo said, melee weapons should be more effect when
1) you attack from behind
2) you attack unseen
(cumulative)
For example 50% bonus from each so if you had both you'd have 225% damage modifier. :)

#403 Sporb

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Posted 29 May 2007 - 05:55 AM

throwing accuracy doesnt do anything. Judeau got it working but at the moment in the current build, it might as well not exist.

#404 Popek

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Posted 29 May 2007 - 07:58 PM

throwing accuracy doesnt do anything. Judeau got it working but at the moment in the current build, it might as well not exist.



/me removes the 30 stat points he invested in his demolitions sectoid.

#405 Popek

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 05:15 PM

stun mines issue continued.

Was playing a game earlier with bambuz. 1071, ufo2k set sporb posted on the 22nd.

I brought a fusion launcher with a few rounds of it's stun ammo, and hit a group of sectoids. Dropped one, i was happy :) as the shot wasn't that accurate. Another sectoid from the group must of inhaled some smoke and later walked onto a regular proximity mine. The mine stunned him.

As previously mentioned in regards to the experimental stun mines you created they would stop the game.
Well this proximity mine that inflicted the stun effect due to previous damage acted just the same.

Bambuz was unable to end his turn, he could still move units (until they ran out of time units)
we have to abandon the game after trying to reconnect via F3 a couple times.

So my suspiscions are we recreated the effects of the stun mines (purely by chance) and they
caused this bug.

#406 Sporb

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 10:17 PM

it might be a problem with the way the Proximity mines work. Could you try and see if you can recreate the bug using the Flashbang? (My pc has problems with ufo2k for the last few months) edit the values if need be, they can always be re-set later.

#407 nachtwolf

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Posted 31 May 2007 - 08:30 PM

I'd like to say that I am not dead, just more busy than I expected as I started working 2 weeks before what I planned.

It should settle soon.
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#408 Kratos

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Posted 01 June 2007 - 09:34 AM

@Sporb: Elite plasma rifle's auto shot takes 0% TU usage.
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#409 Sporb

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Posted 01 June 2007 - 11:49 PM

@Sporb: Elite plasma rifle's auto shot takes 0% TU usage.


Ha! didnt realise that one got past! Thanks for letting me know. Needless to say if it had have made it into a new Package people would have exploited it to the max and everyone will have been upset!

Fixererd

Edited by Sporb, 01 June 2007 - 11:51 PM.


#410 Popek

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Posted 06 July 2007 - 06:04 PM

Only have been able to recreate the bug involving being stunned by a mine. (doesn't have to be a stun mine, just as long as it stuns you and is a mine)

All stun ammo, flashbangs (if they actually work), etc... I haven't encountered bugs with.

I've been using Fusion launcher stun ammunition for the most part as they are more effective and dependable. Nothing worse that throwing 2 flashbangs at one guy in the same turn, direct hits and no effect..

Got to try out heavy lasers again in some real games. Effective, definitely not overpowered, but a lot of fun to shred up a wall without destroying everything inside. Great for cover fire through solid windows, as you still get 4 shots after taking out the window. You just better hope they hit their target.

We tend not to bring the plasma as it does chew through ammo rather quickly. Perhaps to make it a little more enticing, give it the ability to carry one of the overcharged cell types? laser or rifle i suppose.


Played a great 'Search and Destroy' game, today. Heavy weapons didn't see much action, i think only 1 kill was made between 2 heavy laser rifles. Not much else to report weapon wise though. It was really well balanced.

#411 nachtwolf

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Posted 06 July 2007 - 08:50 PM

Maybe indeed like exo said, melee weapons should be more effect when
1) you attack from behind
2) you attack unseen
(cumulative)
For example 50% bonus from each so if you had both you'd have 225% damage modifier. :)



I see a big flaw in this.

Say you approach a soldier head-on, you could just move 2 square, and get on his back to do 225% mode damage? cause it can't see you now?
The visible area as it is, is really taking a lot of memory. I can hardly think how much it would take to actually remember that.

I definately think melee should be related to strength.
Melee reactions have already been discussed too and are planned as soon as someone does them.
And the stuff Judeau did on his build (which was lost in a crash) is also planned.

Edited by nachtwolf, 06 July 2007 - 08:50 PM.

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#412 Popek

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Posted 08 July 2007 - 08:23 PM

yeah no instant guaranteed kill methods...

a unit carrying a melee weapon (not obstructed by a two handed firearm) should definitely have a chance to deflect an attack... or better yet... react with an attack of their own if they are not taken down on the first try. That would be interesting, making pistol/knife combinations very good for high reaction units.






oh how i enjoy this game, so many possibilities

#413 Popek

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 08:32 PM

some changes were made to the existing ufo2000.lua file me and bambuz have been using lately.

adjust the time units for the heavy plasma, it was using 15% tu's per autoshot, adjust to 10%, so it will take 50% of your time to fire a volley like the adjsuted heavy laser.

Plasma handgun was adjusted slightly more damage.

Combat Knife time usage was raised slightly.

Elite Plasma Rifle was adjusted so it doesn't have 0 TU's for autofire should anyone care to use it.

considering raising the point costs on some explosives, as that seems really the best way to balance them, and prevent too much abuse until walls are able to protect from directional explosions.

Attached Files



#414 Sporb

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 11:55 PM

some changes were made to the existing ufo2000.lua file me and bambuz have been using lately.

adjust the time units for the heavy plasma, it was using 15% tu's per autoshot, adjust to 10%, so it will take 50% of your time to fire a volley like the adjsuted heavy laser.

Plasma handgun was adjusted slightly more damage.

Combat Knife time usage was raised slightly.

Elite Plasma Rifle was adjusted so it doesn't have 0 TU's for autofire should anyone care to use it.

considering raising the point costs on some explosives, as that seems really the best way to balance them, and prevent too much abuse until walls are able to protect from directional explosions.


Please hold off on updates until the latest version of the ufo2000 wespon set is released, it already contains tweaks and suggestions you and Bambuz have made. it should be ready by the weekend

#415 bamb

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 11:30 AM

Well, we use that thing just between us two for playing. :) It's nice to test new things since it's so easy to coordinate in irc with a person you know, and neither of us needs hand holding in installation etc...

One thing I'd like to see is quicker smoke fade off. This is a feature in the X-Com Modified weapons. (XCM from now on, I'm tired of writing that!) Now the smoke lingers for very long even from small explosives. Of course purposeful smoke bombs and generators could produce smoke for a long time, but the ordinary explosions could be detuned in smoke duration, not to the XCM level but somewhat...

Edited by bamb, 10 September 2007 - 11:30 AM.


#416 Sporb

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 03:31 PM

Have a go with this and see if the ballances in your new LUA match the changes. This is a single large release with all SFX and changes.

Edited by Sporb, 10 September 2007 - 08:58 PM.


#417 NinthRank

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 05:03 PM

Looks good! Here are some problems, though:
- "Stabilisers" --> "Stabilizers"
- I think that the flashbang should be 1x1 like the other grenades. Anyone else?

Finally, is this now the official topic for this set, or is it here?

Very nice!

Edited by NinthRank, 12 September 2007 - 09:48 PM.


#418 bamb

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 05:32 PM

Looks good from initial view! Big thanks, Sporb!

What I'd watch the most is knife TU usage, it's a tad low at 10%, but I have only played one game with it increased to 15%, and don't know yet if it's too much...

Also the plasma blaster autofire takes 60% of TU:s and has only 4 shots, 5 shots and 50% of TU:s could work better to make it more equal to the heavy laser. We realized that after some playing. Or then 4 shots and 48% of tu:s and up the damage a bit. Also the clip is heavy... Though it makes sense to be, when compared to the sniper one. Will have to playtest that still some.

#419 bamb

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 05:35 PM

Found a bug! The medikits become illegal if you are in the alien sheet, they're not included there (hidden)?

#420 Sporb

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 09:06 PM

Crap! cant beleive i forgot to add that! Updated the LUA and tweaked the Plasma Blaster. Flashbang resized too, will edit the sprite at a later stage.

#421 Popek

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 12:57 AM

took the 'earlier' version you posted for a spin tonight. Aside from receiving a little Heavy Rocket spam, things went along really smoothly and the medical equipment proved handy for both players.

#422 Popek

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 07:41 PM

plasma blaster seems unchanged, still 60% tu's for 4 rounds of autofire. Considerably less effective than the heavy laser which (if you don't move at all) can possibly fire 10 shots.

adding my vote to the suggestion the Plasma Blaster be adjust for the option to fire 2 sets of auto-fire (for 8 shots total) if the player conserves all their time.

#423 Sporb

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 08:15 PM

plasma blaster seems unchanged, still 60% tu's for 4 rounds of autofire. Considerably less effective than the heavy laser which (if you don't move at all) can possibly fire 10 shots.

adding my vote to the suggestion the Plasma Blaster be adjust for the option to fire 2 sets of auto-fire (for 8 shots total) if the player conserves all their time.

download the lua i attatched in above post, the changes should be there.

#424 NinthRank

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 09:47 PM

- "Stabilisers" --> "Stabilizers"

Oops, never mind, Brit. variant.

Edit: Muscle Stimulants seems to be bugged:
-- HP, Stun, Energy, Morale
	heal = {0, 0, 100, 0},
	max_heal = {0, 100, 0, 0},
Is this right?

Edited by NinthRank, 12 September 2007 - 10:34 PM.


#425 bamb

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 10:00 AM

The latest LUA says this about plasma blaster (I just dled it and opened in editor):
time = {11, 40, 75},
autoShots = 5,

I think 55 TU:s is too much as then you never get to fire two autoshots in one turn. 5*10 or 4*12 with damage upped would be better imo.

#426 Popek

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 12:54 PM

this is very strange I've completely removed the entire weapons-ufo2000 folder, replaced it... put in the latest .lua and even checked inside it to verify it has new stats. Then I load the game and it's not the same version.
I've searched for any conflicting .lua files and no luck. I am most confused here.

#427 Sporb

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Posted 22 September 2007 - 11:07 PM

some new ideas for some weapons some based on the idea Stubbs mentioned in another thread. A Weapon that berserks units separate to psi amp.

Some of these weapons require beserk implemented these elaborations require at minimal the ability to berserk units.

Psychosis gun: Unit will attack friendly units and ignore hostiles. Unit will not be controllable by either play and will remain in one place (though to make it interesting he should be blessed with 360 degree visibility while under influence so that frontline units wont just keep staring at the enemy) for X turns
Nerve Gas: Removes all Stamina from a unit in radius of cloud (would act as fire or smoke does but itd be GREEN!)
Nerve Gas 2: causes all units within radius of effect to berserk until dissipation
EMP grenade: Removes control of a unit and dims him while active but he can still react (IE you can send him commands cause hes no radio)

#428 Kratos

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 12:54 AM

Something I'm working on from my game, X-Fire:

From left (names pending):

- Standard Pistol
- Standard Shotgun
- DragonFly (sword)
- Glove
- Imperial Pistol
- Imperial Shotgun
- Imperial Sword
- Imperial Glove

Posted Image

There will be more variety later on when I can concept more equipment.

Edited by Kratos, 25 May 2010 - 03:12 AM.

Posted Image

#429 Fomka

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 11:35 AM

I'm going to criticize your concept, but mean no offense.

Posted Image

Critics on the scale
The scale of the objects seems to be mixed: grips do not correspond with gloves. Shotguns are also small, they must have barrels near 3 times longer than pistols.

Some critics on the shotguns
The word shotgun means that the recoil is hard. Seems that this shotguns, however, are not intended to be fired from a shoulder: they have no buttstocks. I see two ways to fire such weapon: to hold it with one hand having the arm?fully straightened or to hold it near hip with two hands. Since that there are no reflex sights on the shotguns, firing from a hip will not be aimed. Firing a shotgun with one hand in pistol style will make non-magical shooter tire quickly.

Critics on the Standard Pistol
The pistol have either small grip or huge barrel, depending on scale. It will be uncomfortable in any way in reality. If the pistol fires bullets, where the ammo is stored? The grip seems to be small.

Suggestions on making the weapons more realistic
Add buttstocks to shotguns.
If Imperial weapons are meant to be more deadly, you can show that not only with change in color, but also with adding accessories: scope over the barrel for Imperial Shotgun, laser sight for Imperial Pistol.



There will be more variety later on when I can concept more equipment.

If you are thinking of firearm concept, I suggest to look for pictures on Modern Firearms & Ammunition site.

Edited by Fomka, 25 May 2010 - 11:44 AM.


#430 Kratos

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 01:17 PM

Critics on the scale
The scale of the objects seems to be mixed: grips do not correspond with gloves. Shotguns are also small, they must have barrels near 3 times longer than pistols.


I'm working from a limited scale size, of course the scaling will be off. While I may increase the size of the barrel for the shotguns a bit, I am not increasing it x3, that is overkill on the limited size.

Some critics on the shotguns
The word shotgun means that the recoil is hard. Seems that this shotguns, however, are not intended to be fired from a shoulder: they have no buttstocks. I see two ways to fire such weapon: to hold it with one hand having the arm?fully straightened or to hold it near hip with two hands. Since that there are no reflex sights on the shotguns, firing from a hip will not be aimed. Firing a shotgun with one hand in pistol style will make non-magical shooter tire quickly.


Maybe it's not intended to be fired at the shoulder? :)

Critics on the Standard Pistol
The pistol have either small grip or huge barrel, depending on scale. It will be uncomfortable in any way in reality. If the pistol fires bullets, where the ammo is stored? The grip seems to be small.


Grip is a bit small, I've already been thinking about this.

Suggestions on making the weapons more realistic
Add buttstocks to shotguns.
If Imperial weapons are meant to be more deadly, you can show that not only with change in color, but also with adding accessories: scope over the barrel for Imperial Shotgun, laser sight for Imperial Pistol.


1) They are meant for a game that is hardly realistic, sci-fi and anime-ish styled...
2) I'm aware with accessories, but I plan on shelling out a lot more different sets besides the 2, so I rather save scopes / accessories for other future sets.
3) As for the buttocks on the shotguns, maybe. If it proves to look more putrid than it's worth, then I won't though.



If you are thinking of firearm concept, I suggest to look for pictures on Modern Firearms & Ammunition site.

I could have found this on google just fine.

If you really want realism, look at a drawing I did back in 2007:

Posted Image

My point here is, I'm well aware of the style being unrealistic. It's not suppose to be entirely with a fantasy concept (and of course limited size). I'm trying to think of different ways / things to interact as to the common day, clip inside handle. To your question where the clip can be inserted, maybe perhaps under / near the barrel? The intention here is because they may be or may not be bullet ammo. It could be energy induced (laser, plasma, etc.). Lasers in reality would have NO kick at all for example, so why care so much about a big butt on the shotgun?

Edited by Kratos, 25 May 2010 - 01:29 PM.

Posted Image

#431 Fomka

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 11:30 PM

I'll start from general

My point here is, I'm well aware of the style being unrealistic. It's not suppose to be entirely with a fantasy concept (and of course limited size).

I did not see in the initial post that this was the concept of non-realistic weapon set so I pedantically took weapons as if they are supposed to be real.

The intention here is because they may be or may not be bullet ammo. It could be energy induced (laser, plasma, etc.). Lasers in reality would have NO kick at all for example, so why care so much about a big butt on the shotgun?

If there was word "Laser" in the weapons names I would not object on recoil :) Half a year ago I wrote a comment on other weaponset saying that "Weak foldable buttstock is alright, since laser is not supposed to produce recoil".

Now to the rest

I'm working from a limited scale size, of course the scaling will be off. While I may increase the size of the barrel for the shotguns a bit, I am not increasing it x3, that is overkill on the limited size.

The size of what is limited? Are you speaking of the 11x20 squares in UFO2000 equipment sheet which limits space for a weaponset? The weaponset can be divided into several sheets, like in "Ufo2k set: ONLY Human weapons" and "only alien". Why did not you make shotguns occupy 2x3 squares?

Maybe it's not intended to be fired at the shoulder? :)

OK, the shotguns are not intended to be fired from a shoulder position.

1) They are meant for a game that is hardly realistic, sci-fi and anime-ish styled...

OK :)

If you really want realism, look at a drawing I did back in 2007:

Looks like Beretta 92 pistol in variant without safety lever. Yes, it is realistic. I haven't drawn anything like this myself :)

To your question where the clip can be inserted, maybe perhaps under / near the barrel?

Ammo storage can be placed over the barrel like in ?Calico M950 9mm "pistol" or under the barrel but not in the handle like in?Mauser C-96 pistol. Pistol can also be with no clips at all: like a revolver or single shot pistol loading from muzzle.

Edited by Fomka, 25 May 2010 - 11:31 PM.


#432 Kratos

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 12:40 AM

I gave the pistol a bigger grip and the shotgun a bigger barrel size, and readjusted it overall.

Posted Image

Edited by Kratos, 30 May 2010 - 12:41 AM.

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#433 MiniMacker

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 03:47 AM

I gave the pistol a bigger grip and the shotgun a bigger barrel size, and readjusted it overall.

Posted Image


It looks a little "funky". But it must've been that I recently watched Judge Dredd and their ridiculous pistols.

#434 Cpt. Dr@gonfyr

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 05:31 PM

there's one weapon that it seems everyone overlooked that I'd love to see introduced into 2K.


wait for it...


...the Blaster Launcher.


Posted Image

#435 Fomka

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 05:36 AM

there's one weapon that it seems everyone overlooked that I'd love to see introduced into 2K.


wait for it...


...the Blaster Launcher.


This weapon is unavailable intentionally, it is too powerful for multiplayer. Look at Serge's answer #8 in FAQ: http://www.xcomufo.c...h...st&p=127791

#436 Cpt. Dr@gonfyr

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 12:57 PM

there's one weapon that it seems everyone overlooked that I'd love to see introduced into 2K.


wait for it...


...the Blaster Launcher.


This weapon is unavailable intentionally, it is too powerful for multiplayer. Look at Serge's answer #8 in FAQ: http://www.xcomufo.c...h...st&p=127791

:( I miss the Blaster Launcher...

Edited by Cpt. Dr@gonfyr, 21 December 2011 - 12:58 PM.