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ART - Issue #87 - Morlock


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#51 Vaaish

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 11:50 AM

try feathering the edge between the underbelly and back color. And use color or hue overlay for the tatoo to make it appear like it is more under the skin.

#52 Shinzon

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 11:52 AM

thats a possoblility... I would suggest you use more space of the unrawp (you have alot of black areas) and that the body be either horizontal or vertical... it makes texturing alot easier...

Right now everything in your unrawp is tilted...


that's just my 2 cents...

#53 gregie

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 12:15 PM

i'm starting detailing the texture.
i'm not gonna do too much lighting, as i think it will look better if i bake it using a high poly model.
is there gonna be a seperate bump map for bulges such as veins and stuff, or just a normal map?

vaaish- the colour on the edges of the belly follows the contour of the scalse. i thought it would make it look more natural, but i guess its not noticeble enough. should i feather it away as you said, or make it more pronounced?

using hue for the tatoo doesnt look very good. i'll play around with it a bit more.


shinzon - the problems i'm having are with seams and stretching, not alignment. i guess i should have spent more time on fixing those things before i began texturing.
i never seem to have the patience to do that.

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#54 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 12:44 PM

That model is looking awesome already, great work gregie, keep it up =b

#55 Vaaish

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 02:32 PM

Gregie, I really not liking how the colors on this guy are looking right now. I think that the speckeled underbell and variations in the colors on his body aren't meshing with his character. It's not a problem with the execution, just the direction we started out on.

Lets see about giving his skin more of the "aliens" coloration, dark almost like a carapace, but not a black, more a coffee black and without the underbelly.

The underbelly makes him look too terrestrial and "soft"

For markins make them more scimitar like in how th curve and are pointy to make him appear more aggressive. (fux, can you sketch up some markings like that?) The should look more burned into the skin in a way than actual bright tatoos... sort of a ritual branding and then war paint applied to make them appear even more fierce. (more like the concept pciture in the first post of this section.)

Another more complaicted thing to do is make thefront of his face more angular, the more I look at it, the more it appears to be ver broad across the face, again reading benign and not aggressive. (making that change shouldn't mess up your texture map much if any)

Edited by Vaaish, 03 May 2005 - 02:35 PM.


#56 gregie

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Posted 04 May 2005 - 01:51 PM

i agree.
i'v scraped the texture and started a new one.

#57 gregie

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 05:22 PM

ok, firstly i have reshaped the head a bit. do you think it is enough?

secondly, i'v started on a new texture.. i'm going for a smooth skin ("aliens" style) at the moment, but i think i'll add some sort off texture to it.. maybe scalse or something.
i'm looking into how protoss look. i like their skin texture.

i'm going to use very little shading, if any. i think that baking it with a normal map would be better.

i'm thinking of a shape for a tatoo, but i think that it should be put into a different thread about alien symbolism (or maybe not? i dunno..)

please post any and all constructive criticizm. having input is important.

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#58 Vaaish

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 05:46 PM

I think that look is much more fitting on him.

The shape of the hea is fine in the profice you posted as well.

Now what I would like to see is some muscle definition and blood vessels since he is pretty ripped, and maybe a slightly lighter variation of the skin color wrapping around his arms and going down his backinto the legs, sort of like tiger stripes. For tatoos, Lets see what Fux can sketch up.

EDIT: added quick paintup to show the general idea

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Edited by Vaaish, 05 May 2005 - 06:00 PM.


#59 bountyhunter2211

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Posted 06 May 2005 - 12:54 PM

Is it possible (without much trouble) to "point" the feet,
like give them claws or something. Right now the feet
almost look like hooves and i don't think that's fitting.
If it'd be troublesome then don't cuz you might end up
like this :Brickwall:

That would be most unpleasent.

#60 Vaaish

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Posted 06 May 2005 - 01:35 PM

The alien concepts have been finalized for quite some time now. take a peak at the pinned topic to see more of how the texturing for the feet will look.

#61 gregie

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Posted 07 May 2005 - 04:42 PM

okie...
adding veins and cyber stuff..

started adding some stripes. lemme know what you think of the coulour and arrangement.

made the whole thig a bit brighter (you cant see all the detail if its so dark).

vaaish - i think i wanna do the muscle outlines with normal mapping and baking, and *then* pretty it up a little. you think it would work?

about the claws - it shouldnt be hard, and its the second complaint i get about the feet. they look fine to me, but maybe i should alter them?

i'm not touching the tatoos for now.

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#62 fux0r666

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Posted 07 May 2005 - 06:26 PM

you could put some metal bits on his back like down his spine and over his lats/rear detoids/traps and triceps... and maybe his hamstrings.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#63 Vaaish

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Posted 07 May 2005 - 07:51 PM

vaaish - i think i wanna do the muscle outlines with normal mapping and baking, and *then* pretty it up a little. you think it would work?

about the claws - it shouldnt be hard, and its the second complaint i get about the feet. they look fine to me, but maybe i should alter them?

i'm not touching the tatoos for now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Leave the feet as they are, in game I doubt pople will take time to examine them as closly and with the proper textur the won't look so plain.

I would alo make the red markings more visable because poeple with dark monitors aren't goning to be able to see them.


The standing goal of art right now is to create the models without normal mapping right now. We will come back after we have the game playable and add normal maps. That's the long way of saying, don't rely on the normal map to add detail since not everyone will have normal maps available on their cards.

#64 gregie

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Posted 08 May 2005 - 02:40 PM

i'm roughing in the major muscle masses. i wanna have all the muscles atlesast rought in before i continue doing anything else.
vaaish, am i allowed to rely on bump maps to define stuff?
fux - have you had any ideas about tatoos?

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#65 Vaaish

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Posted 08 May 2005 - 03:47 PM

i'm roughing in the major muscle masses. i wanna have all the muscles atlesast rought in before i continue doing anything else.
vaaish, am i allowed to rely on bump maps to define stuff?
fux - have you had any ideas about tatoos?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


yes bump maps are fine.

#66 fux0r666

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Posted 08 May 2005 - 06:32 PM

YEah, some nice flaming skulls with daggers and snakes, hehe.

Tattoos are a sticky thing when you're talking about alien races, because human cultures have developed tatties that look like just about anything you can imagine. Anything from Mendhi/Henna decoration to brutal tribal tattooing, so it would be hard to invent a tattoo scheme that doesn't seem terrestrially rooted.

There are some very brutal scarring techniques practiced on earth but they are less pop-culture. What do you think of tribal scar patterns? You can make the scars any colour you wish, as long as they make some sense.. See if anything comes of that idea, if you like it. Otherwise, I'll do some tattooing research. Currently, celtic designs spring to mind as some of the most alien looking.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#67 Vaaish

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Posted 08 May 2005 - 07:23 PM

I'd actually like to see the brutal tribal scar patterns more than a tatoo. it give a micuh more pimal a brutal feel to the character than simple tatoos would.

#68 gregie

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 04:52 PM

all the muscles are defined, so i'll continue by finishing the metal bits and adding some ritualistic scars.

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#69 Shinzon

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 05:19 PM

ah there we go, theres our muton now...

good job, i think the muscles really bring out its character..

#70 Vaaish

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 08:02 PM

yup... look quite good.

#71 mikker

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 07:10 AM

actually, i think something is missing.

From Shinzons avatar, what about adding some blueish 'glow' or highlight to the morlocks face? It looks too dark. Maybe give the eyes an omnious glow too?

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#72 Vaaish

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 08:35 AM

actually, i think something is missing.

From Shinzons avatar, what about adding some blueish 'glow' or highlight to the morlocks face? It looks too dark. Maybe give the eyes an omnious glow too?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



I don't think he's touched the eyes yet and he still has to finish up the augmentations and add the scars...

#73 gregie

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Posted 14 May 2005 - 06:41 AM

mikker - shinzon's avatar is a protoss guy sitting by a monitor, which gives its face a blueish glow. it wouldn't look very good if i made the face glow, i think. maybe what makes you dislike it is that it's flat (unshaded), so i'v given it some shading. tell me if it helps.

as for the eyes - i actually kinda like the way they look. adding a glow would be cool, but thats an in-game effect, isnt it? maybe i'll add some yellowish tint to the surrounding skin to simulate the glow.
i think what makes the eyes look bad is that they recieve shadows. how can i make the eyes self illuminate in the game? or at least not recieve shadows?

iv added more cyber stuff on the back. i havent put it on the erector spinea (or whatever you spell it) but rather on either side of it, to fill in some boring bits of the back.

oh! and i'v added a sexy tattoo! :rolleyes:

p.s.
any and all commets and criticism is encouraged and appretiated!

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Edited by gregie, 14 May 2005 - 06:44 AM.


#74 mikker

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Posted 14 May 2005 - 07:54 AM

thanks for the close-up. It may just be my monitor, but youre highlights in the face should be brighter, IMO. It's too hard to see his facial structure.

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the truth about scientology

#75 j'ordos

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Posted 14 May 2005 - 10:02 AM

I don't know if it should be lighter, often what you can't see is scarier than what you can see :)
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#76 Vaaish

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Posted 14 May 2005 - 10:16 AM

From over here the highlights are just right. I can make out the ones on the face quit easily. The definition and structure is looking quite nice, but I don't thing that tatoo is helping. it looks too bright (green isn't too agressive) and it's in a pretty odd spot for a fearsome warrior type.

Just to help everyone else, can you bump the highlights up by no more than 15% to make them a it more visable.

#77 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 14 May 2005 - 12:52 PM

mikker - shinzon's avatar is a protoss guy sitting by a monitor, which gives its face a blueish glow. it wouldn't look very good if i made the face glow, i think. maybe what makes you dislike it is that it's flat (unshaded), so i'v given it some shading. tell me if it helps.

as for the eyes - i actually kinda like the way they look. adding a glow would be cool, but thats an in-game effect, isnt it? maybe i'll add some yellowish tint to the surrounding skin to simulate the glow.
i think what makes the eyes look bad is that they recieve shadows. how can i make the eyes self illuminate in the game? or at least not recieve shadows?

iv added more cyber stuff on the back. i havent put it on the erector spinea (or whatever you spell it) but rather on either side of it, to fill in some boring bits of the back.

oh! and i'v added a sexy tattoo! :rolleyes:

p.s.
any and all commets and criticism is encouraged and appretiated!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Looks just awesome :master: but slightly different from what I recall in the text, I better take a look at it and make sure it fits our new model :D

#78 Shinzon

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Posted 14 May 2005 - 08:26 PM

wouldn't whant to run intp that in a dark alley... :P


Good job, looks good

#79 fux0r666

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Posted 15 May 2005 - 02:42 AM

Looks like the text department has their work cut out for them :)

Excellent work so far, Gregie. You're the best thing that happened to this concept.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#80 Astyanax

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Posted 15 May 2005 - 09:04 AM

Looks like the text department has their work cut out for them :)

Excellent work so far, Gregie.  You're the best thing that happened to this concept.

I second both these sentiments. Good work, gregie! =b
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#81 gregie

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Posted 16 May 2005 - 01:01 AM

before starting work on the thing i contacted the ctd and asked if there were some guidelines. they told me not to worry about it, and just do it. so i didnt read the ct entry for the morlock.
reading thru it now i see it has very little to do with how the model is turning out...

#82 Vaaish

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Posted 16 May 2005 - 05:45 AM

Gregie, Art has always had precidence over CTD especially since some of these concepts have been finished for quite awhile now. Basically if there is a preexisting final concept piece then go with that as your guide and if you can work some elements of CTD in at the same time, so much the better.

I think you are almost finished with the model, all thats left are some ritual scaring maybe on the forehead or over the eyes and on the chest.

#83 gregie

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Posted 16 May 2005 - 02:36 PM

i dont wanna put a scar on the chest cuz theres enough stuff going on there already. the most boring part right now is the head, so thats where i tried to put it, but it didnt turn out very well. i'm not sure how to make it more convincing without adding paint.

the butt tattoo was meant as a joke, btw. i guess it wasnt clear enough.

one other thing: is there a way to make the eyes not recieve shadows in the game?

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  • Attached File  head.jpg   105.79K   113 downloads

Edited by gregie, 16 May 2005 - 03:03 PM.


#84 Vaaish

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Posted 16 May 2005 - 02:56 PM

actually It looks like the scaring isn't ging to show up too well. Lets switch that over to paint then something pimal looking simialr to the White Hand paint on the Uruks in Lord of the Rings (in the texture of the aplication, not the look of the paint)

Let me see if I can dig up some more info,

EDIT: idea for face paint

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Edited by Vaaish, 16 May 2005 - 03:20 PM.


#85 mikker

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Posted 17 May 2005 - 03:28 AM

much better highlights, nice work. I do like the head painting, but you might want to make some diffrent kinds - they might look too similar in-game.

Some people say that dreams are a portal to the subconscious. If that is so, I am a very disturbed person.

the truth about scientology

#86 gregie

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Posted 17 May 2005 - 02:32 PM

!!! i have finally bought a wacom !!!

took couple of hours to get used to it, but i think i'm starting to get the hang of it.

mikker - i'm not sure about the policy regarding multiple textures for the same creature. could someone enlighten me?

and does anyone from programming know if it would be possible to make the eyes glow?

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  • Attached File  face.jpg   103.64K   140 downloads


#87 Vaaish

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Posted 17 May 2005 - 02:36 PM

hehe yeah wacoms are awsome especially the Cinques(sp) if you can afford one.

Instead of making the eyes have a glow haze around them why not just create an illumination map to make the eyes glow.

Could be particularly effective if they looked like embers or dully glowing coals.

#88 gregie

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Posted 17 May 2005 - 03:05 PM

illumination map is what i had in mind... so it IS possible to use it in game?

it seems wastefull, though, to add another map to the model just to make the eyes illuminate.

#89 Vaaish

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Posted 17 May 2005 - 04:45 PM

it's not necessary, but we are using one on the pistol so it's your perogative whether or not you want to use it.

#90 red knight

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Posted 17 May 2005 - 06:52 PM

You can the worse that can happen is that we ignore it for lower level video cards ;)

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#91 rincewind

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 05:20 PM

I agree, add it and we will just throw it out on cards that can't handle it. Remember, by the time we'll have a working battlescape, most people should have cards that can.

And the additional shader code is quite easy in terms of programming effort, so we get a lot effect for very little effort.

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#92 gregie

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 03:59 PM

i cant get over how great this wacom is. i should have bought it a long time ago. its a graphire 3 btw, not a cinques.

i'm gonna start rigging, as theres little left to do texture-wise.
if there is more to do on the texture - speak up.
in any case - i'll prolly add to it later - when i'm not so overfed with it.

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#93 Vaaish

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 04:24 PM

Looks great from here, can we get one red spike tatoo starting at the noze and running up the middle of his head to kinda tie it together a bit better.


Beyond that I think we can package it and ship it.

Don't worry about the skeleton for now unless one of the prog guys wants to tell us a bit more about the OGRE animation system and what we can and can't do.
I also need to get a copy of the MAX file, texture and texture PSD to archive.

#94 gregie

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 04:37 PM

i'll upload that stuff to the bugs site tomorrow.

so i guess no animating until the prog guys do their thing?

#95 rincewind

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 04:44 PM

i'll upload that stuff to the bugs site tomorrow.

so i guess no animating until the prog guys do their thing?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would leave it for now. I guess we'll have to schedule a meeting sometimes, so someone from you guys explains us a little about how animation works for you and we'll see what we can get out of Ogre. As far as I know, you should in general limit yourself in a maximum of 4 bone influences per vertex. Also, more bones in total, means more render calls => lower performance.

But since current focus is on planetscape/basescape, I would rather focus on other stuff right now.

Rincewind

P.S: That model looks awesome. When I find some time, I'm going to play around with some realtime shaders to at least make it show of in the XNet.
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#96 Vaaish

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 09:10 PM

Model complete, task closed.

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Edited by Vaaish, 25 May 2005 - 12:15 PM.


#97 red knight

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 03:24 PM

Excelent Work Guys, Awesome model =b. Azrael, news about this ;)

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