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#1 Sivert

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 09:17 AM

Hi I'm new and I've got some ideas (haven't seend any post about them nor on the list).

1. Weapons should have attachments such as scope, aimpoint, granade luncher or suppressor. Scope could increase hit chance but it would cost more to shot etc.

2. Weapons should have fire modes like full-auto, semi-auto, 3-rounds burst.

3. There should be few versions of one weapon like which have diffrent fire modes, damage, hit chance, fire rates and which can be easier or harder used by soldiers.

4. In multipalyer players should be able to trade tech, weapon or train each other soldiers for money or equipment.

5. Other personel than soldiers should be trained like sientists could learn new abilities so their work would be faster and better or they could defend base when needed.

6. When soldier sees when his parter's death he should be angry (stats up for some time) or paniced (can't move and run). Or at least it should decresse his abilities to fight or move.

7. Weapons should brake down sometimes.

8. Soldiers should be able to drive e.g. cars or tanks.

9. Some countries should have their own organizations like x-com to defend themself and players could trade with them or fight together.

PS. Marry x-mas all and keep up the good work.

#2 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 09:20 AM

Most of these ideas have been discussed previously. That doesn't make them bad ideas however, Personally I like some of them.

Damn I can't wait until stew has the new labs up and running, then I hopefully won't have to say "That idea has been discussed approximately 2,382 times before"
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#3 Whitewashed

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 10:05 AM

Personally I'd like to keep the game nice and simple and don't see much use of these except for point 6 which already was included somewhat in the original with the soldiers morale.

#4 Nukkel

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Posted 03 January 2004 - 11:30 AM

Weapons breaking down sounds nice though...

#5 Puasonen

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Posted 03 January 2004 - 12:26 PM

6. When soldier sees when his parter's death he should be angry (stats up for some time) or paniced (can't move and run). Or at least it should decresse his abilities to fight or move.

7. Weapons should brake down sometimes.

I agree with these two points.. This totally makes sense. Maybe soldiers with higher bravery get bonus to attributes because they get angry or something and cowards would panic and get their attributes dropped a little..

And weapons SHOULD brake sometimes.
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#6 Breunor

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Posted 04 January 2004 - 10:11 PM

To facilitate discussion of the different areas, I suggest to anyone who reads this that they make seperate posts for different areas. For example, I'm renaming this thread "weapon changes" so the next person has a clue what it is. There have been lots of threads renamed like this. If you look you will find lots of weapons threads. This could be merged with those discussions, and probably will be after the lab forum is segmented into distinct areas.

#7 fux0r666

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Posted 04 January 2004 - 11:08 PM

I believe that most of the weapons in the original had different firing modes, or at least the troops did. They fired only one shot in aiming or snap shot but fired three in autoshot. In a background pic between missions it depicts a squaddie blazing away with a pistol mac11 style.

As for the other additions to the weapons, it would be interesting... but there is already a very high degree of micro management in the game. You would spend a LOT more time in the buy and sell screens and in your store manifests keeping track of sites and LAMS and flashlights and silencers... these are some things to consider.

I think maybe there isn't a lot of payoff in that respect because you don't actually get to see or use any of those things... they would just constitute a +10% to snapshot at close range for the LAM, or what have you.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#8 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 05 January 2004 - 01:56 PM

A +10 on accuracy? Give my heavy plasma that and it would be unstoppable! :)
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#9 NickJones

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Posted 08 January 2004 - 04:35 PM

Some of these fetures were in the original X-Com and I assume they will be in Xenocide.
What I would like to see is the use of Earth Based technology extended beyond the first 2 missions. In UFO defense, Laser weapons could be acheived before the first terrior site, and plasma soon after. There was a large variety of human weapons, all of which were usless after the first few missions.

Also, the possibility of soldiers "prefering" weapons would be neat. This shouldnt be somethign that is given, it should be learned over time. For example: You designate a soldier as YOU (we have all done this lets face it, its fun). You like to use o, lets say pistol weapons. So you use them for 10 missions and your character developes a liking to them. So you recieve a boost in stats when you use a pistol or single handed weapon.

This is a far reach from the original X-Com. But considering the fact that players may get attached to a single soldier, it would add a personal aspect that UFOD lacked.

#10 Puasonen

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Posted 09 January 2004 - 01:23 AM

But considering the fact that players may get attached to a single soldier, it would add a personal aspect that UFOD lacked.

I disagree! I did get attached with those soldiers. Especially with the ones I renamed by my family and friends!

But I agree your idea would make it even better, that totally makes sense and is a good idea. I don't know how hard it is to implement. Not too hard I expect. V1+ idea but really SHOULD be implemented in the future.
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#11 NickJones

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Posted 10 January 2004 - 08:25 PM

Maybe I worded something wrong; I didnt mean to imply that players dont get attached to agents, actuallly i ment the opposite.

#12 DendromutantX

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Posted 11 January 2004 - 05:52 PM

And weapons SHOULD brake sometimes.


Not just brake down--blow up, hurting or even inflaming soldier.

#13 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 11 January 2004 - 06:26 PM

Break down?! No! That would get to be extremely annoying! Besides, the men would probably clean their weapons before every engagement.
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#14 Robo Dojo 58

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Posted 11 January 2004 - 07:20 PM

Break down?! No! That would get to be extremely annoying! Besides, the men would probably clean their weapons before every engagement.


Heck, what else could you do on those long, boring 10 hour Skyranger trips? :rolleyes:
Posted Image Haha! I'm now the Supreme Commander of X-COM. Time to kiss Earth goodbye.

My first order of business: Homeless people make cheap rookies, and are great at opening UFO doors. Heck, they're so cheap, I'm going to replace all personel with them!
Secondly: This organisation takes too much money to run. Weapon shipments will come from Siberia from now on. Costly maintenance is to be cut on all facilities. That includes venting.
Thirdly: We have a new colonel. His name is Facehugger, he loves aliens, and I want you all to treat him with respect.
Lastly: I'll be in my condo on an undisclosed island, if you need me. Good day.

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#15 NickJones

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Posted 11 January 2004 - 09:45 PM

Maybe it was just my messed up x-com disk, but sometiems smoke grenades failed to produce any smoke.

#16 Whitewashed

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Posted 12 January 2004 - 04:15 AM

Never in my time in the military we had a rifle that broke down so how likely is this really?

#17 fux0r666

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Posted 12 January 2004 - 05:50 AM

Well if you're in the united states military in the 60's using the m16a1 or in the canadian military using the ross rifle under hiddeously dirty battlefield conditions, it would be semi real.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#18 Robo Dojo 58

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Posted 12 January 2004 - 06:33 AM

Maybe it was just my messed up x-com disk, but sometiems smoke grenades failed to produce any smoke.


Yeah, that happens to me, too. The third or fourth smoke grenade never produces any smoke. It's probably a bug limiting the amount of smoke that you can have on a map. Try using the heavy cannon, or grenades to make more smoke fields.
Posted Image Haha! I'm now the Supreme Commander of X-COM. Time to kiss Earth goodbye.

My first order of business: Homeless people make cheap rookies, and are great at opening UFO doors. Heck, they're so cheap, I'm going to replace all personel with them!
Secondly: This organisation takes too much money to run. Weapon shipments will come from Siberia from now on. Costly maintenance is to be cut on all facilities. That includes venting.
Thirdly: We have a new colonel. His name is Facehugger, he loves aliens, and I want you all to treat him with respect.
Lastly: I'll be in my condo on an undisclosed island, if you need me. Good day.

FMIX-The General Stores

#19 Whitewashed

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Posted 12 January 2004 - 10:58 AM

Besides the engineers will constantly be looking over all the weaponry at the base, they won't send the troops on missions with weapons bound to break down, they're the most important part of the battle so they are taken best care of. Even in the military weapon care came before personal care.

#20 Whitewashed

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Posted 12 January 2004 - 11:50 AM

Maybe it was just my messed up x-com disk, but sometiems smoke grenades failed to produce any smoke.


Yeah, that happens to me, too. The third or fourth smoke grenade never produces any smoke. It's probably a bug limiting the amount of smoke that you can have on a map. Try using the heavy cannon, or grenades to make more smoke fields.

Speaking of grenades... why did it require so many TUs to prime the grenades in the original game? It made them close to useless. Isn't it the easiest thing to pull a plug out? Will this be better balanced in Xenocide?

#21 DendromutantX

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Posted 12 January 2004 - 03:22 PM

Isn't it the easiest thing to pull a plug out?



Not if you're holding weapon in the other hand. And if you dont you probably using it too support your bagpack

#22 Puasonen

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Posted 13 January 2004 - 06:23 AM

Speaking of grenades... why did it require so many TUs to prime the grenades in the original game? It made them close to useless. Isn't it the easiest thing to pull a plug out? Will this be better balanced in Xenocide?

This have been discussed elsewhere and I think we agreed to make it cost less TU's. I'm not sure if we decided that but the answer is in these forums somewhere. Could be like searching needle from the hay stack but anyways.
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#23 RustedSoul

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Posted 13 January 2004 - 09:26 AM

the only one i'm not sure of is
7. Weapons should brake down sometimes.

I have 2 .303's that where used during WWII and they still can shoot the pimple of a horses bum, all they require is a cleaning once a month. Obviously automatic weapons will require more. But still to spend alot of time preparing for a 2-4 part mission, only to have most of your weapons scrapped by the end the long haul might be alittle fustrating for some players

#24 NickJones

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Posted 13 January 2004 - 01:24 PM

I believe grenades were so costly so they wouldnt throw off the balance of the game. When used properly then can be deadly; Killing your opponent without even having a line of sight, or even with an entire building blocking the path between you and your foe. X-com they were cheap to use. A single agent could throw a few grenades and still have time to fire. This took away from the gun fight aspect of the game.

THROWING ACCURACY:

Lets face it, if x-com agents didnt have a world to defend, they should be playing sports. Maybe they cant throw far, but they can hit almost every target. Will the accuracy be reduced in Xenocide? Or will it remain outragously good?

And I will have to vote a negatory of the breaking down of weapons. But I would like to see Ammo play a bigger role. I love that little clicky sound it makes when you load a clip into a gun. Id like to hear that more often.

#25 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 13 January 2004 - 02:02 PM

Simple! Make more specialized clips! (Ex: Inciendiary blaster bomb, explosive stun bomb, Plasma flame clips for the heavy plasma!) Ok, I went overboard with the plasma flamethrower idea (it would be cool though!)
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#26 Robo Dojo 58

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 07:34 AM

yes... an Elerium based flamethrower... *drool*... :)
Posted Image Haha! I'm now the Supreme Commander of X-COM. Time to kiss Earth goodbye.

My first order of business: Homeless people make cheap rookies, and are great at opening UFO doors. Heck, they're so cheap, I'm going to replace all personel with them!
Secondly: This organisation takes too much money to run. Weapon shipments will come from Siberia from now on. Costly maintenance is to be cut on all facilities. That includes venting.
Thirdly: We have a new colonel. His name is Facehugger, he loves aliens, and I want you all to treat him with respect.
Lastly: I'll be in my condo on an undisclosed island, if you need me. Good day.

FMIX-The General Stores

#27 Puasonen

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 07:40 AM

Yes the throwing accuracy in ufo defense and TFTD is from another planet! BUT, if we would reduce it, grenades would become useless unless we would increase the blast radius..
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#28 mikker

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 08:14 AM

Yes the throwing accuracy in ufo defense and TFTD is from another planet! BUT, if we would reduce it, grenades would become useless unless we would increase the blast radius..

LOL, no. If we degrease the throwing distance, and increase the blast radius, the caster is sure to be flamed.

instead,we could just half the ammount it shows you, but still have the real ability twice of this.

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#29 tzuchan

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 08:39 AM

Isn't it the easiest thing to pull a plug out?



Not if you're holding weapon in the other hand. And if you dont you probably using it too support your bagpack

Hmm...
I seem to recall that people could pull the pins out of the grenade using thier teeth...

Single handed throwing of grenades is possible. Just don't expect fast balls :D .
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#30 Puasonen

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 10:30 AM

LOL, no. If we degrease the throwing distance, and increase the blast radius, the caster is sure to be flamed.

instead,we could just half the ammount it shows you, but still have the real ability twice of this.

Nooo, let the distance as it is! It's quite normal how far they throw those grenades. Just the accuracy is supernatural.

edit
except in TFTD, I never understood how they can throw things so far underwater :D

Edited by Nyyperoid, 14 January 2004 - 10:31 AM.

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#31 j'ordos

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 12:37 PM

Hmm... simple :idea:

We lower the throwing accuracy and lower the time unit cost as well: that way you can throw more grenades, just don't expect them to always land where you want 'em :naughty:
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#32 Puasonen

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 12:43 PM

Maybe lower the cost then too? (I mean money) and alien crenades shouldn't take elerium then because you have to throw them everywhere..
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#33 mikker

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 02:19 PM

if you take away the elerium from the alien granades, it kind of ruins the point of it being alien, doesnt it? :/

you could instead just give every alien that can carry things a granade or two that THEY WON'T USE, UNLESS OUT OF AMMO. This way, you get more free nades.

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#34 Whitewashed

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 02:20 PM

I think it's acceptable if a grenade costs 1 elerium to make. Anyway, I rarely use grenades as it is so I've never had to manfacture them, only use some of the ones I get from missions.

#35 j'ordos

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 02:21 PM

more free alien grenades? I always would end up with hundreds of them if I didn't sell some, and I use them quite often :devilburn:

about making grenades less expensive: why? Ever went broke because you overstocked with grenades? :P
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#36 Puasonen

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 02:23 PM

more free alien grenades? I always would end up with hundreds of them if I didn't sell some, and I use them quite often :devilburn:

about making grenades less expensive: why? Ever went broke because you overstocked with grenades? :P

no but I will if 75% of grenades flies off the target <_<
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#37 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 02:34 PM

For me, its not the throwing cost that is the big issue, but the priming cost! I mean, it takes like 30TUs to prime the damn thing! Most of my men don't have enough time to toss it after that!
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#38 j'ordos

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 02:38 PM

Yeah, you need an entire allotment of TU's if you want to prime and throw a grenade in one turn, give or take a few steps... so the lesson we learn here is: prime your grenades beforehand :D
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#39 Whitewashed

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 02:39 PM

For me, its not the throwing cost that is the big issue, but the priming cost! I mean, it takes like 30TUs to prime the damn thing! Most of my men don't have enough time to toss it after that!

That's what I said!

Yeah, you need an entire allotment of TU's if you want to prime and throw a grenade in one turn, give or take a few steps... so the lesson we learn here is: prime your grenades beforehand

Yeah, and when your soldier gets shot he takes all his team-members with him, great idea! :hammer:

#40 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 02:40 PM

But I'm paranoid. I don't like to carry around primed grenades. If the aliens get me, and I'm right next to a buddy...
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#41 j'ordos

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 02:54 PM

Yeah, you need an entire allotment of TU's if you want to prime and throw a grenade in one turn, give or take a few steps... so the lesson we learn here is: prime your grenades beforehand

Yeah, and when your soldier gets shot he takes all his team-members with him, great idea! :hammer:

Well, I intended to add 'inside your skyranger, with an alien in sight, but don't throw it yet :naughty: ', but I figured it was pretty obvious the way it was ^_^
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#42 NickJones

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 03:25 PM

The balance between accuracy and TU cost is what we need to look at. Because grenades are so accurate, they cost a lot of TU in Xcom UFO. If we decreased the accuracy and the TU cost it would make both aspetcs a little more realistic. I agreen with J'ordos in this aspect.

By no means should the accuracy be as bad as shooting. But having your grenade fall a couple meters off target wouldnt be horriable.

Besides regular grenades and high explosives, will there be Anti-tank (or cyberdisk) or anti-personel grenades.


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#43 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 05:18 PM

Captain:"That is an alien grenade that you should toss at the chryssalid that is running towards you at high speed!"

Rookie: Huh? What's a chryssal-uhhg
Chryssalid: Was it as good for you as it was for me?

Anyway, I agree with NJ in regards to grenades. Make them less accurate (perhaps they can roll?) but decrease their TUs as well.
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#44 Judge_Deadd

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Posted 15 January 2004 - 01:55 AM

1. Weapons should have attachments such as scope, aimpoint, granade luncher or suppressor.

Or a bayonet.
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#45 Puasonen

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Posted 15 January 2004 - 05:41 AM

I have been talking about the priming time all the time.
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#46 DendromutantX

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Posted 20 January 2004 - 04:00 PM

Regarding grenades:
I wasn't sure at first, cause I never really used them, so I could'n reply objectively, but now I specially replayed X-com 1 using grenades as my main weapon. And you know what? It's perfectly ballanced--I have time to prime the grenade, to throw it and to get a new one from my belt. Not to mention how many times they saved my sorry butt. As for the complains, that it shouldn't take that long to pull the ring and throw the grenade--try to do so, holding heavy plasma in the other hand.

#47 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 20 January 2004 - 05:35 PM

Teeth! (I know real grenades don't work like that, but Xcom has special "easy boom" grenades! :)
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#48 Tuoppi

Tuoppi

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Posted 06 February 2004 - 03:58 AM

Off the grenade topic for a sec... IŽd really like to see decent burst firing.

Scenario: Rookie Johnson interrupts a snakeman coming around the corner 2 meters ahead of him. Engages burst fire of his LMG and pulls the trigger as long as magazine lasts...

Of course TU:s limit, but cost should be like 2 points/shot continuously after initial aiming instead of lame 3 round bursts. (which is of course reasonable option with assault rifles) If someone has Silent Storm, check it out as it works great.

Also i think we need more burst-firing weapons. Light Machine Guns, and such. Imagine an elerium-based mass driver propelling 10000 very small rounds near light speed/minute... cool. :uzzi2:

#49 Robo Dojo 58

Robo Dojo 58

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Posted 06 February 2004 - 09:50 AM

Of course TU:s limit, but cost should be like 2 points/shot continuously after initial aiming instead of lame 3 round bursts.

That sounds like something that Apoc did. It'd need a huge amount of rebalance, though. If you can shoot 20 times a turn, every unit would need to be able to survive 3-4. Otherwise, one soldier could kill 10 aliens a turn. Not too fun, I think.

Imagine an elerium-based mass driver propelling 10000 very small rounds near light speed/minute... cool.

:LOL: That's powerful! It'd have enough recoil to launch a rocket into orbit!
Posted Image Haha! I'm now the Supreme Commander of X-COM. Time to kiss Earth goodbye.

My first order of business: Homeless people make cheap rookies, and are great at opening UFO doors. Heck, they're so cheap, I'm going to replace all personel with them!
Secondly: This organisation takes too much money to run. Weapon shipments will come from Siberia from now on. Costly maintenance is to be cut on all facilities. That includes venting.
Thirdly: We have a new colonel. His name is Facehugger, he loves aliens, and I want you all to treat him with respect.
Lastly: I'll be in my condo on an undisclosed island, if you need me. Good day.

FMIX-The General Stores

#50 Tuoppi

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Posted 07 February 2004 - 06:45 AM

Time unit cost could be like snapshot+2TU x rounds... (short/long or maybe even giving ability to select how many TU:s to spend). Burst fire should have recoil effect (-accuracy after every shot), and trace bonus (+accuracy after every shot)

Of course this takes HUGE playtesting to balance... and is somewhere in ver X.X but imagine cutting sectoids in two with continuous heavy laser beam, No recoil is an advantage!

And that mass driver system is my wet dream... In personal LMG, HWP and craft modifications. With bullet mass small enough (some mikrograms) even the recoil would be reasonable... :uzzi: