Jump to content


Photo

The Private Sector


  • Please log in to reply
21 replies to this topic

#1 DwightMcNeil

DwightMcNeil

    Rookie

  • Forum Members
  • Pip
  • 0 posts

Posted 09 May 2004 - 11:19 PM

One of the features I loved was being able to sell off the captured equipment once I distributed it amoung all my troops. One game I had three engineering sections just working on lazer rifles to sell for income.



My quesiton is why aren't there more guns? I am a Jagged Alliance 2 player and there are 50 weapons know world wide available with features like lazer sites, scopes, and grenade launchers. I still feel they left many out. Online like with this forum many people have made other avaible. I think you should start off with at least that many before the aliens come.

Also items like throwing knives, sledge hammers, and netguns would be useful. Also gas masks and helmets for when you have the blue armor (couldn't is be camoflagued?)



That is where private sector comes in to play. I am not sure how you would decide a number, but several arms manufactors should be jockign for X-Com's business. Especially once you sell technology of the aliens off which they can research.


Alien metal would be great to make ammunition with......And some companies may make a large or quick change plasma magazine for your rifle or heavy plasma weapon. The list goes on but bits could be competitive. Maybe a long range plasma rifle or a flame thrower unit. Maybe an acid sprayer that does extra damage to snakemen skin.


Also what about the technology that the aliens promised the collaborators? Are weapons included? Super strong cloth to make better jump suits?


An open market could be a key to victory.....

#2 Escobar

Escobar

    Rookie

  • Forum Members
  • Pip
  • 0 posts

Posted 10 May 2004 - 03:12 PM

Also items like throwing knives, sledge hammers, and netguns would be useful. 

Some realism plz :boohoo:

#3 Blehm 98

Blehm 98

    Colonel

  • [Global Moderators]
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,626 posts

Posted 10 May 2004 - 03:37 PM

A relavent Idea. Also, perhaps you choose who to sell your stuff too. U.S. may not pay as high a price as Saudi Arabia, but may make your stuff better. HEHE
Top Secret Xenocide Status report

BF2 Hackers =5SF= have busted
]sD[ Engageo <-- couldn't get him banned though, no screenshot of him ingame
]sD[Nomisser
an AK guy
The anti-logarithm of the logarithm of X plus the logarithm of Y equals X times Y, or 10^(logX + logY) = XY
Posted Image
I hate spider solitaire...

#4 DwightMcNeil

DwightMcNeil

    Rookie

  • Forum Members
  • Pip
  • 0 posts

Posted 10 May 2004 - 11:22 PM

Throwing knives......are in JA2 and very useful in real life.

Sledge hammer great for taking out doors........or live capture...LOL


Netgun...is a real weapon not the best though.









That is cool...some countries have better industries. The Saudis wouldn't be as interested in buying let's say a power source. May begin a real game economy.

#5 Escobar

Escobar

    Rookie

  • Forum Members
  • Pip
  • 0 posts

Posted 11 May 2004 - 01:44 PM

Throwing knives......are in JA2 and very useful in real life.

  Sledge hammer great for taking out doors........or live capture...LOL


  Netgun...is a real weapon not the best though.









That is cool...some countries have better industries.  The Saudis wouldn't be as interested in buying let's say a power source.  May begin a real game economy.

Sledge is heavy as heck and cumbersome to use, it doesnt take bolt reflexes to avoid it. You can breach doors with SG shot or plasma beam.

Throwing knive in JA2, yea maybe in that game but this is futuristic game and i dont think that special forces would use any kind of knives in combat. You can throw a grenade instead.

Netgun......i think most aliens can shoot it to rips......


:boohoo:

#6 DwightMcNeil

DwightMcNeil

    Rookie

  • Forum Members
  • Pip
  • 0 posts

Posted 15 May 2004 - 09:29 PM

Sledge hammer is used by swat....along with other tools for doors.



Throwing knives don't make noise.



A netgun springs on them before they can do anything or....keep wounded or gased aliens where they lay.....after you disarm them.

#7 Escobar

Escobar

    Rookie

  • Forum Members
  • Pip
  • 0 posts

Posted 21 May 2004 - 03:01 PM

Sledge hammer is used by swat....along with other tools for doors.



Throwing knives don't make noise.

Show me a pic where Swat uses sledge


Throwing knives dont penetrate armor and have crap range.

#8 mikker

mikker

    Artwork Department

  • Xenocide Artwork Department
  • 2,211 posts

Posted 21 May 2004 - 03:45 PM

well, throwing knives and sledgehammers arn't really a good thing to add. They suck terrible, and do not belong in Xenocide.

the reason there arn't more weapons is:

1#) It takes time to make it.
2#) Its unfair for the aliens. Its inballanced enough as it is.












and do cut down on the lines.

Edited by mikker, 21 May 2004 - 03:47 PM.

Some people say that dreams are a portal to the subconscious. If that is so, I am a very disturbed person.

the truth about scientology

#9 Cpl. Facehugger

Cpl. Facehugger

    Creative Text Department

  • Xenocide Inactive
  • 3,749 posts

Posted 21 May 2004 - 08:59 PM

Sledgehammers are currently used by swat teams to break down doors. Such a tool would be useless against the alien alloy of the ufos. Now maby a Xenium breaching charge on the other hand...
I'm only partially inactive. :P I can still be reached at cpl.facehugger@gmail.com, and via PM. Preferably the former.

*Coming back? Avast! Facehugger, finish your assignments!*

Posted Image

#10 DwightMcNeil

DwightMcNeil

    Rookie

  • Forum Members
  • Pip
  • 0 posts

Posted 22 May 2004 - 11:36 AM

Alien alloy being to strong.....that is a good answer. Though you fight in cities often...but I can understand that.....







Unfair to the aliens?!!? You are kidding me.......they have the most advantages. All you have to do to balance if at all is make the aliens more aggressive. Mutons with heavy plasma should be able to rip apart most X-com troops.


I can understand it takes time to create weapons, but I thought you wanted to expand and improve the game.


This is sci-fi combat.......I want armor piercing poison tipped rounds. Gatling guns to cut down greys. Sniper rifles and camoflague suits. Flame throwers, gas masks, and jumbo magazines.


I want more then one provide of equipment. If it is to much work I can understand that but be careful when you say a piece of equipment isn't necessary. :explode:

#11 Blehm 98

Blehm 98

    Colonel

  • [Global Moderators]
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,626 posts

Posted 22 May 2004 - 11:00 PM

A charge makes most sense. It can also stun the aliens, not to mention that anything on the other side goes boom!
Top Secret Xenocide Status report

BF2 Hackers =5SF= have busted
]sD[ Engageo <-- couldn't get him banned though, no screenshot of him ingame
]sD[Nomisser
an AK guy
The anti-logarithm of the logarithm of X plus the logarithm of Y equals X times Y, or 10^(logX + logY) = XY
Posted Image
I hate spider solitaire...

#12 ChonkE

ChonkE

    Sergeant

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 13 posts

Posted 02 June 2004 - 01:56 AM

Well I dont think throwing knives are that hot an idea, but a melee knife would be nice. Make it monomolecularly cut out of alien alloys so that it could penetrate armor and thick skin. It would make alot more sense than a "vibro" knife or a plasma charged blade (at least in the time period).

And although some scoffed at the idea of a netgun, I kinda dig it =p
Something to slow down those pesky buggers giving problems :cussing:

#13 A_dxman

A_dxman

    Sergeant

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 52 posts

Posted 02 June 2004 - 08:48 PM

Cool
More guns, more guns
Must have more that 25 weapons in the game…
Maybe 50 or 75 would be cool
:plasma:
:flame:\
:uzzi:
:bash:
:ninja:
:laser:
:uzzi2:

But they would come after V1.0

#14 Cpl. Facehugger

Cpl. Facehugger

    Creative Text Department

  • Xenocide Inactive
  • 3,749 posts

Posted 03 June 2004 - 02:10 PM

We don't want so many guns that they all start to feel alike. And example would be the rainbow 6 games. There are so many guns, and they all seem pretty much the same to me.

Another example would be Jagged Alliance. You have all these cool guns, including Soviet and American guns, but they are all almost exactly the same, with few exceptions.
I'm only partially inactive. :P I can still be reached at cpl.facehugger@gmail.com, and via PM. Preferably the former.

*Coming back? Avast! Facehugger, finish your assignments!*

Posted Image

#15 kchickenlord

kchickenlord

    Sergeant

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 28 posts

Posted 12 July 2004 - 02:16 PM

Too many guns spoil the game, rainbow 6 suffers by introducing many weapons of the same class, a hk g3 and an fn fal use the same round and have similar ballistic qualities, the differences are too subtle to show up too much in a game, the differences are going to mainly be in furniture, its hard to convey how easy a weapon is to handle in a game and reliability when modeled usually results in the weapons being far more unreliable than in real life.

I think a maximum of 3 from any class should be a limit

Civilian; weapons possibly as an easter egg

pistols; a large caliber weapon a small mag (10 rnds or so) and high knockdown power, a standard sort of security forces pistol (probably quite a futuristic one in this game) and a machine pistol, xcom would be using the most advanced stuff so i would make the weapons quick, light and with larger mags than the crappy 14rnd 9mms you get in other games, thinner polymer caseless rounds would be standard by the time of the game.

SMGs; once again, an absolute minimum of a 30rnd mag, most modern weapons are taking 50rnd mags, and the mags are small enough that with todays webbing anyone can carry two 5 mag pouches on the front of their belt within easy reach, this should be reflected in the size of the mags on the loadout screen. the fire rate should be huge 900rnds/min is not unusually for todays high tech smgs

assault rifles; maybe 2 of these, one standard bullpup rifle with 30 - 50 rnd clips and another with an integrated grenade launcher, in future lower caliber grenades would be standard as the explosive power would increase, maybe 20mm grenades like on the ocr, and feeding from a clip, not individually loaded.

shotguns; shotguns would be used mainly as entry weapons and as a low velocity delivery system for non lethal and specialist rounds, modern shotguns would feed from a clip, say 20 rnds like the caws and would have a burst mode, any full auto mode should have a low rate of fire, sub 350 rnds/min or thereabouts. and it should be single barrel, many games makers put in a pump action shotgun model and think the magazine tube is another barrel and so have a double barrel mode.

sniper rifles; 2 types, the sniper/assault rifle style like a galil sniper but more modern, and the huge rifle that can kill aliens in a single shot from a mile away like a modern version of the m82.

obviously the aliens should be made tougher so the weapons arent too powerful

#16 fux0r666

fux0r666

    Alien Concept Task Force

  • Xenocide Artwork Department
  • 1,028 posts

Posted 12 July 2004 - 02:41 PM

The problem with throwing knives is they don't kill or incapacitate with any reasonable amount of reliability or speed. In the movies Arnold Schwartzeneggar throws his machete through a badguy and he just sort of dies peacefully and soundlessly with a stupid look on his face. In reality, you hear reports of fatal stabbings where the stabbee was stabbed over ten times. This is because people don't die quickly from incidental cuts, even deep ones. The fastest you could kill someone, I think, would be to stab somone in the heart. This would deprive oxygen to their brain and kill them in under five minutes. Alternatively, you could try and stab someone in the brain- that may or may not kill them. It may or may not effect their ability to fight you at all depending on what part of the brain was lesioned. I use the term stab because throwing a knife is equivalent to stabbing them once.

I don't know where knives come off as silent weapons, either. If I was grabbed and cut or stabbed you can be sure I would be screaming my head off. The only way to avoid this would be to slit my throat... and I would still be able to struggle for a limited amount of time, making a noisy clatter while I'm at it.

The only way to make sure someone was dropped in one shot with a knife would be to sever the spinal chord at the medula oblongata- and that would take some strength and precision. You'd probably have to feel where the cervical spine was in order to get the knife in between the vertebrae.

Then there's the blood all over the place..

All in all, knives are messy, imprecise and limited in their lethality. They put whoever is using them in unneeded danger. They are only useful in very limited applications where the killer has a lot of time and privacy and has the physical power to control the person he is killing. Throwing knives are even less effective and are only suitable for slowing down pursuers or hobbling someone before a fight to take an advantage.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#17 Simaldeff

Simaldeff

    Sergeant

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 24 posts

Posted 26 July 2004 - 06:23 AM

Private companies is a good idea, isnt it?

I mean u can choose simply to:
1- Sell the captured stuff only (so they have to study iut themself)
2- The item + some info about your studies
3- The right to use the technologies but keeping the patent for you (so each year they will have to pay u to produce stuff based on your research)
4- simply sell the patent losing the right to produce stuff based on those technologies witheout paying rights at the company.

For example u could simply sell the patent of Laser once u produced enough or u researched plasma.

Plus full patent could give u a lot of money in really short time, but selling rights could give u a constant income.

Companies could also try to steal ur tech with industrial spying or can simply research stuff faster than u so u'll have to pay to use tech that they managed to get before u do.This could add the strategie in not investing force in researching non-vital stuff and producing it later by paying the right at a company.

Immagin Beretta and some other weapons company fighting over having ur laser weapon patent. LOL.

I always asked myself who was it that bought my stuff??? Aliens? Mafia? Government? Farmers? mmmmhhhh strange dont u thk.

#18 fux0r666

fux0r666

    Alien Concept Task Force

  • Xenocide Artwork Department
  • 1,028 posts

Posted 26 July 2004 - 06:47 AM

Xcom would sell their weapons to whomever would buy them. The units you select to sell go out onto the appropriate market, and whomever has knowledge of the sale and has a need for inordinately expenssive laserguns would buy them. I always assumed that the governments were buying them. Even if all of the governments of the world were being puppeteered by aliens, if xcom supplied the only source of laser guns, it would be advantageous for them to buy them. Xcom would also be able to descriminate who they are selling to, and could choose not to put them up on the open market so any farmer could buy them. Whatever happens after their chosen buyers aquire the weapons is none of Xcom's business, except if they have signed some kind of binding agreement.

One of the stipulations in the game is that xcom is the cream of the crop in every field. It may not be cost-effective for organizations that are comprised of lesser R&D personelle to try to develop or produce the weapons that xcom does. Moreover, they could only attempt to sue Xcom if a) they knew about xcom and if B) they knew about laser guns and c) they could prove that their intellectual property preceeded xcom's. They might not know about xcom or even laser weapons, depending on who is buying them, and what kind of agreement they have with Xcom about the production, use and distribution of arms. To lubricate gameplay, I would just make the assumption that Xcom is secret, and they sell the laser weapons to the agencies who are paying them or who already know about xcom.

Edited by fux0r666, 26 July 2004 - 06:48 AM.


Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#19 Paladin

Paladin

    Colonel

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,132 posts

Posted 27 July 2004 - 12:37 PM

Sledgehammers are currently used by swat teams to break down doors. Such a tool would be useless against the alien alloy of the ufos. Now maby a Xenium breaching charge on the other hand...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

isn't that called... an alien grenade :hammer: , or a BLASTER LAUNCHER :explode:
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#20 Paladin

Paladin

    Colonel

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,132 posts

Posted 27 July 2004 - 12:40 PM

Well I dont think throwing knives are that hot an idea, but a melee knife would be nice. Make it monomolecularly cut out of alien alloys so that it could penetrate armor and thick skin. It would make alot more sense than a "vibro" knife or a plasma charged blade (at least in the time period).

And although some scoffed at the idea of a netgun, I kinda dig it =p
Something to slow down those pesky buggers giving problems  :cussing:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right, the mere idea of a giant screwdriver is laughable, but the monomolecular knife sounds cool (ŕ la Cyber Punk :D )
Besides, it would handle just the same... Mhmmm perhaps if it was the only way to get through a Mutton (like the Lobstermens of TFTD...) :devillaugh:

Oh, and Net guns would be FAR more usefull than cattel zappers...
And slightly less suicidal... perhaps a combination of the two? :idea:

Edited by Paladin, 27 July 2004 - 12:41 PM.

"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#21 The Master Maniac

The Master Maniac

    Captain

  • Xenocide Recruit
  • 442 posts

Posted 29 July 2004 - 06:20 PM

No offense, but I'm still kind of laughing about the idea of X-Com guys swinging giant sledgehammers at Mutons...

Er, right--I suppose this whole "competing arms dealers/nations" idea would be cool, but the consensus so far is to make the game and all the bare essentials work and flow well for the first release. Perhaps for V1+?

#22 Paladin

Paladin

    Colonel

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,132 posts

Posted 30 July 2004 - 07:35 AM

No offense, but I'm still kind of laughing about the idea of X-Com guys swinging giant sledgehammers at Mutons...

Er, right--I suppose this whole "competing arms dealers/nations" idea would be cool, but the consensus so far is to make the game and all the bare essentials work and flow well for the first release. Perhaps for V1+?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, I've learned that the whole sledgehammer thing was invented by canadian soldiers in WWII, when they were asked to suicidally go up a street under machine gun fire, being sons of lumberjacks they decided instead to demolish the houses inside walls one by one to clear the street...

So yes, a hammer would be nice to demolish houses and doors, but we have High explosives for that in XCOM... :D
They are called grenades, rocket launcher, heavy cannon, autocannons (though on higher diff the walls seem stronger against those)
And we have Laser, and Heavy Plasma, and BLASTER BOMBS!!! :LOL:

"Remember the joy of your first blaster bomb lauch...", it made so much smoke it went over the map's limit by itself... Oh, the joy... :rolleyes:
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"