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Poll: Would you like a patch (v5) to remove psi, and increase health of aliens? (104 member(s) have cast votes)

Would you like a patch (v5) to remove psi, and increase health of aliens?

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#1 dipstick

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Posted 22 February 2004 - 03:14 AM

Says what is says on the tin! I am of the opinion that psi sucks big time, but hey, that is only my opinion. I think that if psi is taken out, then you can concentrate on other things. Of course, morale is still an issue :naughty:
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#2 XcomVic

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Posted 22 February 2004 - 03:16 AM

haha...dip..i guess you didnt like my comments... you must not have voted since i didnt see your NO yet... :P

in case anyone is wondering where this came from....read here


dipsticks thoughts

Edited by XcomVic, 22 February 2004 - 03:17 AM.

...just a thought...

#3 XcomVic

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Posted 22 February 2004 - 03:19 AM

ok now...what the heck is the problem with alien health?! those suckers were pretty damn tough most of the times.. especially the mutons, yes its true that sometimes a damn crys would die with one shot by a rifle...but oh damn well, better for you! how much hp are you guys actually trying to increase anyway...
...just a thought...

#4 dipstick

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Posted 22 February 2004 - 03:21 AM

I meant as a compensation for losing psi, as well as if we (hopefully) decide to adopt my system for armour.
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#5 XcomVic

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Posted 22 February 2004 - 03:23 AM

uhh..what happened to that last option? it was there last time i was here..LOL


anyway, i kinda agree with that armor thing, but remember one head shot from a ap round will kill you...

so maybe 1 hit per armor part? hits u in the arm, bang no more armor there, you get hit there again, less accuracy...hit you in the chest, bang there goes front armor, one more time...u dead, sorry but a cheat wound is very deadly...unless you wanna give it a timer... 2 turns before death from chest wound... head shots--auto death... legs...more TUs wasted..blah blah blah

Edited by XcomVic, 22 February 2004 - 03:28 AM.

...just a thought...

#6 dipstick

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Posted 22 February 2004 - 03:44 AM

I made the option 'disappear' as well as a certain post.

I prefer that armour idea, as the aliens (and you) have either concentrate your firepower on one side, and then kill it, or you could stand there all day pumping HP rounds into the alien, and you wouldn't stand a chance. This would also give more injuries, and less deaths.

Furthermore, I think an increased risk of stunning should occur, ie everytime your armour (only) you should get some stun damage. That would make it slightly easier to stun aliens. Also, you should recover slightly quicker too.
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#7 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 22 February 2004 - 08:50 AM

Well...I don't think we should drop psi. It is such an intristical part of the alien arsenal. Besides, what advantage would etherials have if they didn't have psi?
I'm only partially inactive. :P I can still be reached at cpl.facehugger@gmail.com, and via PM. Preferably the former.

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#8 mikker

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Posted 22 February 2004 - 08:55 AM

i'm confused. Arf arf.

Some people say that dreams are a portal to the subconscious. If that is so, I am a very disturbed person.

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#9 Robo Dojo 58

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Posted 22 February 2004 - 08:59 AM

Don't drop PSI! It's such an important part of the game. I think it only needs to be rebalanced, so it isn't as godlike as it was in X-COM.
Also, if PSI was dropped, the Mind Shield would have to be reworked, and Etherials would just plain be useless.
Posted Image Haha! I'm now the Supreme Commander of X-COM. Time to kiss Earth goodbye.

My first order of business: Homeless people make cheap rookies, and are great at opening UFO doors. Heck, they're so cheap, I'm going to replace all personel with them!
Secondly: This organisation takes too much money to run. Weapon shipments will come from Siberia from now on. Costly maintenance is to be cut on all facilities. That includes venting.
Thirdly: We have a new colonel. His name is Facehugger, he loves aliens, and I want you all to treat him with respect.
Lastly: I'll be in my condo on an undisclosed island, if you need me. Good day.

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#10 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 22 February 2004 - 10:45 AM

Yup. Hmm... Humans and sectoids should only be able to psi people in their line of sight, etherials should be able to psi like they did in the original!
I'm only partially inactive. :P I can still be reached at cpl.facehugger@gmail.com, and via PM. Preferably the former.

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#11 Albino Crow

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Posted 05 March 2004 - 01:18 AM

Nah, you can't drop teh psi! I'd agree with Facehugger. Psionic capabilities are indeed an intrinsic feature of the aliens which really distinguish us from them. It makes them seem even more 'alien', and more developed than we are. This would thus add to the esteem of kicking their donkey in the end.

#12 Tuoppi

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Posted 05 March 2004 - 09:31 AM

I agree. Though I still think MC should be somehow weakened.

When your psionics had enough capabilities, you only had to send a tank(Cannot be mc:d, hard to interrupt) and always when you saw alien, your psionics controlled it, walked the poor bastard into death into hands of others of its kind, controlled others it saw and then killed them using each other and shot the last bug standing. No need to even leave your transport for others than the tank.

Not much of a gameplay challenge, but the only effective way later on. (Exept for save/load). Somehow this NEEDS to be changed. And the aliens did this too...

#13 j'ordos

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Posted 05 March 2004 - 11:17 AM

but the only effective way later on. (Exept for save/load).

I don't agree completely. True, PSI is overpowered, but it's perfectly possible to hardly use psi without the use of save/reload. I finished the game with hardly an alien controlled by me. (I hardly used blaster bombs too, and no, I didn't sent one up to the brain on Mars right away :) )

Edited by j'ordos, 05 March 2004 - 11:18 AM.

"You can't trust your eyes if your imagination's out of focus" - Mark Twain
"The mind is like an umbrella, it functions best when open" - Walter Gropius
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#14 Tuoppi

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Posted 05 March 2004 - 12:33 PM

I see that we agree in this matter. PSI must be weakened.

BTW I tried and won the game without ever developing PSI -just for sport. It did cost me a LOT of soldiers and was so hard that i didnīt even try it at harder than normal difficulty. (Slap me if i suck. :huh: )

#15 j'ordos

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Posted 05 March 2004 - 01:47 PM

I see that we agree in this matter. PSI must be weakened.

BTW I tried and won the game without ever developing PSI -just for sport. It did cost me a LOT of soldiers and was so hard that i didnīt even try it at harder than normal difficulty. (Slap me if i suck. :huh: )

I didn't say 'none', I said 'hardly' :P
"You can't trust your eyes if your imagination's out of focus" - Mark Twain
"The mind is like an umbrella, it functions best when open" - Walter Gropius
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#16 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 05 March 2004 - 04:24 PM

Human psi attacks are not vital to the completion of the original game. But, screening out your psi weenies really helps out.
I'm only partially inactive. :P I can still be reached at cpl.facehugger@gmail.com, and via PM. Preferably the former.

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#17 ShadowHawk00

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Posted 06 March 2004 - 10:24 AM

I agree with dipstick that psi should not be in the game.
It makes the game to hard in the start when u dont have it and once u have it the game is to easy.
Jagged alliance has a similar combat system ( turn based and tile based ) and the game is interresting at the start and at the end because or armor and better weapons are also available to the enemy.

#18 mikker

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Posted 06 March 2004 - 10:48 AM

I think that you should be able to see soldiers mind status right after you have gotten a PSIonic Facility instead of a month of just scanning.

Some people say that dreams are a portal to the subconscious. If that is so, I am a very disturbed person.

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#19 dipstick

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Posted 07 March 2004 - 05:12 AM

Good point mikker, but let me also reiterate what I am thinking about to replace psi.

(I already know I am in the small minority, but I try)

The etherials would appear before the mutons; generally on terror sites. They could also appear very early in game on scouts and stuff too. The hierarchy could go:

Floater
Sectoid
Etherial
Snakeman (thanks centurion)
Muton

Edited by dipstick, 07 March 2004 - 05:44 AM.

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#20 centurion

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Posted 07 March 2004 - 05:15 AM

Snakeman, before the Ethereal?
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#21 Robo Dojo 58

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Posted 07 March 2004 - 08:30 AM

Yeah, even without PSI, etherials have some of the highest stats in the game. 98 Reactions, 74 TUs, and 91 accuracy on superhuman, makes them some of the best. Snakemen can't even come close.
Posted Image Haha! I'm now the Supreme Commander of X-COM. Time to kiss Earth goodbye.

My first order of business: Homeless people make cheap rookies, and are great at opening UFO doors. Heck, they're so cheap, I'm going to replace all personel with them!
Secondly: This organisation takes too much money to run. Weapon shipments will come from Siberia from now on. Costly maintenance is to be cut on all facilities. That includes venting.
Thirdly: We have a new colonel. His name is Facehugger, he loves aliens, and I want you all to treat him with respect.
Lastly: I'll be in my condo on an undisclosed island, if you need me. Good day.

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#22 dipstick

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Posted 07 March 2004 - 02:13 PM

Didn't know they were that good!

Ok, reverse the snakemen and Etherials then

I am also taking into account terror units though.

(I forgot the snakemen totally to begin with!)
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#23 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 07 March 2004 - 02:18 PM

Without PSI what do the etherials become? Weaker Mutons.
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#24 dipstick

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Posted 07 March 2004 - 02:20 PM

Exactly, but add the Sectopods.... :naughty:
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#25 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 07 March 2004 - 02:26 PM

No. Without PSI, the etherials lose what makes them unique.

Etherials aren't too hard. They should stay as is.
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#26 Albino Crow

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Posted 08 March 2004 - 08:19 AM

Snakemen are nearly equivalent to floaters. They're both a meager race in regards to killing them.

#27 Lord FoX

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Posted 19 March 2004 - 04:18 PM

PSI stays!!!!!!!! thos epoor lil aliens without all their voices in their heads......poor things! :hammer:
anyway, why not simply limit PSI? i know there is a forum topic somewhere on PSI but i cnt find it for some reason now..... :boohoo:

how about limiting PSI just to soldiers of a particular rank or above? limited number of colonels allowed in total.....thus limiting how much PSI can be used! combine it with a shorter range means having to get your high rank dude to stalk thro alienville!! Its still useful but means putting your highranks in danger and thus removes the solo mission win by PSI alone!

#28 SemperFido

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Posted 20 April 2004 - 05:59 AM

Remove psi abilities from humans... Not the Aliens.

#29 Extralucas

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Posted 20 April 2004 - 10:24 AM

Not to totally remove, but make it far weaker in use of humans, by reducing their PSI Strength and PSI Skill.
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#30 mikker

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Posted 20 April 2004 - 10:47 AM

what about just making all aliens higher on PSI defence?

Some people say that dreams are a portal to the subconscious. If that is so, I am a very disturbed person.

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#31 Robo Dojo 58

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Posted 20 April 2004 - 11:12 AM

what about just making all aliens higher on PSI defence?

Oh yeah. Maybe you shouldn't be able to MC most terror units. It's not like any of them are intelligent enough to mind control, anyways.

Also, even the best psi people shouldn't be able to sucessfully control aliens all the time. They should have a success rate closer to 40-60%, not 100%.
Posted Image Haha! I'm now the Supreme Commander of X-COM. Time to kiss Earth goodbye.

My first order of business: Homeless people make cheap rookies, and are great at opening UFO doors. Heck, they're so cheap, I'm going to replace all personel with them!
Secondly: This organisation takes too much money to run. Weapon shipments will come from Siberia from now on. Costly maintenance is to be cut on all facilities. That includes venting.
Thirdly: We have a new colonel. His name is Facehugger, he loves aliens, and I want you all to treat him with respect.
Lastly: I'll be in my condo on an undisclosed island, if you need me. Good day.

FMIX-The General Stores

#32 mikker

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Posted 20 April 2004 - 11:18 AM

Also, even the best psi people shouldn't be able to sucessfully control aliens all the time. They should have a success rate closer to 40-60%, not 100%.

Indeed...but this should happen to Cloaks and Grays too (maybe Cloaks should be like 80% tho).

Some people say that dreams are a portal to the subconscious. If that is so, I am a very disturbed person.

the truth about scientology

#33 dipstick

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Posted 20 April 2004 - 12:03 PM

Maybe a sliding scale? So that if a cloak attack almost succeeds, but doesn't quite, your soldier could report 'voices telling him to do things he didn't want', while a meagre attack would warrant no more than a headache.
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#34 mikker

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Posted 20 April 2004 - 12:06 PM

Maybe a sliding scale? So that if a cloak attack almost succeeds, but doesn't quite, your soldier could report 'voices telling him to do things he didn't want', while a meagre attack would warrant no more than a headache.

hmmm....wouldn't that mind control logo on top of the soldier be enough? We could have a little scream when they panic or goes bazerk too :rolleyes:

And a "almost success" would be the same as "no success", though i think panicing would be 100% (even for humans), because if its a weak attack, then it will just reduce less morale.

Some people say that dreams are a portal to the subconscious. If that is so, I am a very disturbed person.

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#35 X-Commander

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Posted 20 April 2004 - 01:30 PM

on the contrary i believe more Psi options should be implemented such as, Having Psi Attacks, That Can be learned, Although One Thing Every Person Would Have A Psi Meter Which Gives them A Limit to How Much They Can use their Psi Powers..... Rather Than Being Able to use it all the time also, If You Overexert them They suffer a psychic breakdown which Means that they wont be able to use any form of pschic attack, Panic And go beserk A lot easier..........

#36 StarKillar

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Posted 24 August 2004 - 07:41 PM

Removing Psi abilities would be a bit 'OT' I think, the limiting of human use of it (as mentioned) would work the best...

#37 Paladin

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 05:38 AM

Well, the limiting of humans using it might always be an option (like, only being able to panick them), but removing it altoghether... Absolutely NOT!!!
It's a classical Sci-Fi theme, one that keeps you on the edge of your seat each and every single time...
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

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There is another which states that this has already happened.
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#38 bountyhunter2211

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 02:01 PM

Psi is a part of the game, you can't just remove it because you think it makes the game too easy. The PSI powers are in the game for a reason, but lowering the power of PSI wouldn't be a bad idea. If you lowered PSI power and added more weapons to Xenocide, then you would branch off of X-Com. It would definately make the game unique to lower PSI and make a larger tech tree, so why not try it? I, for one, will be very interested to see how the game plays with more weapons and less powerfull PSI.




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#39 Paladin

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Posted 30 August 2004 - 06:41 AM

Nah, I'd prefer if it took LONGER to get to really powerfull Psi, but KEEP it that way IMHO, especially for the aliens... They NEED it... :D
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#40 doubleSkulls

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Posted 17 May 2005 - 10:58 PM

I really like Psi in the game it adds a lot of interesting tactics - but there is little or no downside to Psi (and particularly Mind Control).

Maybe making it more draining - e.g. health/energy points being used - and making it harder to retain control of aliens too. If the tactical AI is up to it then maybe using Psi powers gives away your position to the aliens, so they can try a counter attack...

#41 GDD

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 01:37 AM

The only way I managed to finish the game was through psi :P

#42 Exo2000

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 05:20 AM

I'd say... weaker Psi. One of the first missions I had on one game, I didn't know what was in the UFO that crashed. Turned out it was Ethereals. Brainmobbed my entire 6-8 man team and had them gun down each other.

Keep Psi to LoS at LEAST. The aliens should not be able to do things humans can't in terms of Psi, after all, it IS alien tech the humans are using to psi with. Psi should definitely have a higher TU cost (especially full mindcontrol!) and use up quite a lot of energy. Simply mindcontrol spamming an enemy is lame. Alternately, if you allow MC spamming, make the soldier's Psi defense INCREASE each time. They simply ignore the voices in their head. And also decrease the % chance with each subsequent attempt over x turns. If you spam it 5 times, each time it will be less successful. The guy, if not successfully MC'd, will figure out something is going on and just ignore the voices. :)

EDIT: If you take a break and stop spamming it for a while though, the % chance recovers slowly. Perhaps show the % chance in a floating box next to the target, like on Apoc? Some aliens were flat out 0% uncontrollable, but others could be controlled, though it depended on the Psi power of your trooper, their energy, and the Psi defense of the defending Alien.

Edited by Exo2000, 18 May 2005 - 05:23 AM.

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#43 revenant4

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 12:08 PM

In my opinion make it incredibly difficult to learn. Even to the extent that it's incredibly difficult to maintane. I really loved this aspect of the game but always felt it was too easy to get/use. Make it feel like accomplishment.

#44 GARAK

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 04:23 PM

I like it the way it is in the game. I don't fear change, but don't see the need for it either.

#45 mikker

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Posted 21 May 2005 - 10:28 AM

Okay... let's see...

Psi in X-com was for me, useless. Really. When i finally get a cloak to research, research and build the psi factory, research the amplifier, build those, and wait 6-7 months for the soldiers to gain at least a resonable ammount of PSI, i'm already on mars. PSI is useless. Completely useless. But it's not because it's too weak, no way. It is extremely strong, and it works all the time (if it doesn't, just continue untill you run out of TUs). The idea of PSI is very nice, and I like how the aliens use it (although it should be quite a bit harder for them to mind control), but the implantation of it for the humans is terrible. A total rewamp of PSI would be nice, just beware that it doesn't turn into a Jedipower rip-off.

Some people say that dreams are a portal to the subconscious. If that is so, I am a very disturbed person.

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#46 count_penta

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Posted 26 October 2005 - 05:31 PM

I also think that MC worked a bit too well in the original. How about you use that first month of MC training to asses your soldiers skill and that it would just be much more rare to find anyone who was good enough to make it worthwhile training him.

Also I think it should be possible to MC without line of sight, there should just be heavy penalties for doing so (ie. using you psychic powers to "locate"/"tune in" on the alien instead of the actual controlling).

In the original didn't you have stun/smoke damage? And when that damage total got higher that your HP you would pass out? We could do that with psi as well. A psi attack gives you some stun damage so that if you over use it your soldiers simply pass out.

Edited by count_penta, 26 October 2005 - 05:32 PM.


#47 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 26 October 2005 - 08:48 PM

Since our programmers are aiming at making the game fully modable, I'd say any of those options would be available to anyone (haven't read the whole thread, just answering the question).

#48 Moriarty

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Posted 27 October 2005 - 01:37 AM

if we keep the use of "TU", meanine time units, we could also simply change the TU cost of psi controlling to something more reasonable: since the alien has to be psi-controlled the whole time while it performs anything, the TU cost for any psi-controlled alien's action should be subtracted not only from its own TU, but also from the controller's.
in effect, you shouldn't gain extra movement time by controlling somebody, as it is in X-Com (one soldier with, say, 110 TU and high psi translates into four enemy units controlled, for a total of something like 300 TU to use), but just "transfer" your actions to another unit.
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#49 nopoet406

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 04:22 PM

I always felt that psi spoiled the first two X-Com games. The aliens apparently don't need line of sight to use it which is hard enough, but it's also difficult to know which of your troopers is vulnerable to psi attack. It's especially true in TFTD where soldiers rarely survive long enough to master psi defence (at least in my squads).

I have many horrible memories of attacks on submerged alien colonies turning into a carnival of slaughter as my soldiers go berserk in the Triton (despite never setting eyes on a single alien) or turn their guns on their friends. Too frustrating for words - until I learned to use editors to massively boost my psi defence.

I vote nay on psychic powers.

#50 Effigyofdoom

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 11:53 AM

I found that PSI only adds to the environment of the game, espically at the later stages. I was playing the game again, and i had just gotten my plasma research done, I was finally killing aliens more easily, and feeling better about my troops when in a small terror mission in Australia I noticed my commander take his heavy plasma out and begin gunning my troops down from behind.
Now that was my latest encounter with PSI. Yes it is powerful enough that I left that mission with only one guy left. But what flaws it brings to a balance standpoint in the original are completly negated by the environment that it brings to the game. The entire game is drawn from the premise that you are a small hastily brought together organization of the best people on Earth. You are the underdog, and as such I think the more that you can make the player feel hopeless while still letting them win most of the time is a good thing.
I think that PSI should remain the same and it should be the most powerful weapon in the game. This would give the aliens a bit of an advantage until the end, when you have mastered everything they have and proceede to show them the error of thier ways.